Okay what 45 degree face mill is best for the Charter Oak 12z?

[brav65]

I have a question, is it better to purchase the face mill and separate holder that fits your machine or buy the face mill with an integrated collet that fits your machine? It seems to me that you would be better off with a separate holder so that you have more flexibility in the future if you upgrade machines. I hope this is not considered hijacking a thread. If so please move where appropriate.

Thanks,

Brooks

 

[coolidge]

I'd believe what's "real world" recommended for BP/BP clones & what an R8 taper can handle over what Grizzly says. Not to say you can't use a 3" with lighter cuts. Of course YMMV & depends on the material you work with.

I came across a post by a 30 year experienced machinist last night who said the issue is snapping off the R8 alignment pin in the spindle by using too large a face mill. He seemed to be speaking from experience and went so far as to recommend removing the pin, he said its not a key intended for that kind of torque and if you snap it off its apt to damage your spindle and you may have a hell of a time removing the tool let alone fixing the spindle.

 

[coolidge]

I have a question, is it better to purchase the face mill and separate holder that fits your machine or buy the face mill with an integrated collet that fits your machine? It seems to me that you would be better off with a separate holder so that you have more flexibility in the future if you upgrade machines. I hope this is not considered hijacking a thread. If so please move where appropriate.

Thanks,

Brooks

I'm kicking that decision around now. Glacern has both, they claim their face mill with integrated R8 shank improves rigidity, on the other hand I could buy 2-3 sizes of face mills and only 1 R8 shank face mill holder saving a few bucks. Really? Nah I'd probably end up buying an R8 shank for each of them. One concern I do have is, is their face mill with the integrated R8 shank have the same run out and tolerance, that seems like a lot of machining for one hunk of steel.

 

[darkzero]

I did some digging, there appears to be a size difference...

Glacern/Maritool SEHT/SEHW = .500 inch square x .187 inch thick

Lathe Inserts/Grizzly/Mitsubishi SEET/SEGT/SEMT = .528 inch square x .156 inch thick

Insert size (IC & thickness) is denoted by the numbers listed after the insert designation & not the letter designation itself. Aluminum specific inserts will also vary in thickness from steel specific inserts. I'm no expert & don't want to be responsible if you do happen to have an issue but if you find that to be true I would stick with SEHT & SEHW, they seem to be more popular.

Do you have a link to the specs you found for the SEET/SEGT/SEMT?

 

[coolidge]

Insert size (IC & thickness) is denoted by the numbers listed after the insert designation & not the letter designation itself. Aluminum specific inserts will also vary in thickness from steel specific inserts. I'm no expert & don't want to be responsible if you do happen to have an issue but if you find that to be true I would stick with SEHT & SEHW, they seem to be more popular.

Do you have a link to the specs you found for the SEET/SEGT/SEMT?

I looked them up on MSC (searched MSC for SEET, SEHT, etc.) MSC give the dimensions for the inserts. I found the dimensions on a couple of other web sites also and they match what MSC is saying. This site is was also helpful, I selected a 45 deg face mill and down below they have a button that gives you all the inserts that fit. This was helpful in figuring out the inserts for Lathe Inserts, Grizzly, and Mitsubishi were the same. http://www.mitsubishicarbide.net/mmus/enus/face_mills/

 

[darkzero]

I looked them up on MSC (searched MSC for SEET, SEHT, etc.) MSC give the dimensions for the inserts. I found the dimensions on a couple of other web sites also and they match what MSC is saying. This site is was also helpful, I selected a 45 deg face mill and down below they have a button that gives you all the inserts that fit. This was helpful in figuring out the inserts for Lathe Inserts, Grizzly, and Mitsubishi were the same. http://www.mitsubishicarbide.net/mmus/enus/face_mills/

Now I see the SEETs like on Latheinserts.com as being 12T3 which is thinner than 1204. I also do see .528 on MSC but that is listed as length & not inscribed circle. That may be the length from cutting tip to tip which is not the same as IC.

Whatever you go with should be fine. Please let us know how it works out. Personally when I look for an indexable cutter to buy I base my decision on how much inserts can be purchased for & their availability from various vendors. I also got a heck of a deal on my Glacern FM45 as I bought it from someone locally who converted his PM45 to CNC & an ISO30 spindle.

 

[P.K.]

It's all here: https://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-insert-d.htm

P.K.

 

[coolidge]

I may have found a US supplier for Korloy SEHT inserts, $7.37 for SEHT43AFFN-X83, the place is called DELETED and seems to be located in Illinois, parent company CarbideMax. I'll give them a call tomorrow.

Update: Yeah I think not, there is virtually no info on this company anywhere on the internet and when I called some Asian guy just answered "hello". My 'shady outfit' radar went WHOO-WHOO.

 

[coolidge]

FINAL! After hours if shopping inserts and insert grades (good lord) across multiple vendors I'm calling it, the winner in the face mill war is www.latheinserts.com. The face mill, R8 arbor, and two packs of inserts (steel, aluminum) was going to be north of $600 everywhere else I looked vs latheinserts at $332. I have a lot more tooling to buy for the mill and saving a few hundred here makes sense, walk, run, fly. I figure worse case if this face mill isn't up to standard I could devote it to roughing and purchase a better quality face mill later on for finishing.

On a side note is any other 12z owner second guessing not going with the NT30 spindle? The only R8 tooling I have at this point is the Albrecht chuck and EMT collet set, I probably won't change since there's far more available for R8 but curious if anyone else is thinking about this.

Update FAIL! LOL I just couldn't push the Check Out button on the latheinserts face mill. I really wanted the Glacern and purchased it minutes ago. I did find some cheaper inserts on ebay thankfully.

 

[wrmiller]

I 'was' thinking about NT30, but after talking to my friend with the machine shop I decided to stay with R8 as I have a considerable amount of tooling for it, it's cheap, and unless the machine is rigid enough to take advantage of the NT30 it has no other advantage over the R8 (his words). As I am unqualified to speculate about the rigidity of the 12Z being enough to take advantage of the NT30, I thought I'd fade into the background and let someone else be the guinea pig on this one.

Of course if you do find that NT30 works really great, I will reconsider. :whistle: