Newbie: Information on how to select a lathe and also a mill

[cweber]

Hi Folks,

i am sure this question has been asked before. Can anyone point me to where I can build a list of requirements on what to consider when purchasing a new or second hand machine for bench top size, and for a hobby to create small puzzles, chess, various types of clocks, functional mini motors, etc.

Q1. I would like to convert, or upgrade, these machines to include CNC capability in the future, once I have gained basic skills in manual machining. Are all mini lathes and mills able to be upgraded, while still facilitating manual machining?

Q2. Are there any brand specific concerns to consider?

In Australia it appears there is support for Sherline, Taig, Wabeco, Warco at least. I wish to get both a Lathe and Mill, and like the idea of using the same brand. Sherline seem too small to me, the Taig slightly sturdier and increased capacity, but they have a new lathe coming out next year, and mill improvements. Unfortunately, I've read about so many brands they are now all a blur

While I could even fit a Tormach in my garage, I don't want that large a machine regardless of the advantages, nor the associated cost. I like the Wabeco on paper but they too are expensive for two machines and may also have limitations for all I know.

Q3. I guess I am also asking whether there is any 2013 machine comparisons that I could review?

Tooling appears to be the long term most expensive aspect of his hobby, but I don't know what machine brand to settle with before investing in said tooling. I dont mind investing in new as I live remote and have little opportunity to evaluate second hand gear, even if I knew what to look for.

 

[cweber]

I found this site with general information:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/greatest-hits-links/how-buy-lathe-what-look-159366/

LATHES SPECIFICATIONS

Swing over bed
Swing over cross slide
Width of bed
Spindle hole diameter
Spindle speeds
Type spindle nose
Cross slide travel
Longitudinal cross slide travel
Range of taper
Thread chasing pitch range
Maximum threading length
Turret tool hole sizes
Turret power feed range
Center of tool holes to top of slide
Size of hex turret across flats
Spindle to turret face distance
ACCESSORIES
Bar feed, collet chuck, power brake, taper attachment, tap leading attachment, thread chasing, chuck power chick wrench, coolant, compound cross slide, cross sliding hex turret

Q. Which of these is the most important to focus on?

 

[Ray C]

Hi...

OK, you've found all the correct technical specs that help gauge the size of a machine but, based on what you've said, it looks like you want a "mini-lathe" and "mini-mill". All the things in the list you posted tell you mainly how big the lathe is. Generally speaking, we tell folks to get the biggest lathe they can afford and have room for but, the exception is for folks who know the mini-lathe is right for their needs. For mini-lathes, it's assumed the largest single piece you'll ever want to work on is perhaps 2-4 kg (1-2lbs) with most things being at the small end of that range. If that's the case, mini-equipment is right for your needs. If not, we'll need to know the approximate size (in terms of length, width, diameter, weight...) of the biggest parts you foresee working on.

As far as price and quality, there are huge differences and unless you get into the high-cost stuff right away, most units are not CNC from the factory. Many folks do the conversions themselves and that leads me to the next questions... How much effort do you want to put into the machines vs finding one that's plug-and-play? There are precision toolroom lathes which are industrial equipment, quite stout, not terribly huge (but they are heavy) and are capable of precision beyond your wildest imagination and can work on much heavier pieces. In the States, such machines are available used and may need a significant rebuild. I'm not sure about availability in your area. Is that something you would consider?


Ray

 

[Ray C]

BTW: Here's an example of a new production, high precision lathe that would be available in your area. http://www.lagun.com/high-precision-lathes.php. If you were in the US and Canada, I could recommend other dealers but, in order to keep their costs under control, their products are only certified in the US and Canada. This basic style of lathe has been around for decades and was/is the grandaddy of precision. Search for Hardinge HLV and you'll see the original versions which are often available for a couple thousand dollars (USC) but need significant rebuilding. BTW: This is not considered a mini-lathe but rather, an industrial high-precision toolroom lathe.

EDIT: Also, take a look at post #1 of this thread: http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/16501-My-New-8x18/page2

I'm not sure but South Bend is probably available in AU. This looks to be a sweet machine and can probably be CNC converted with some ingenuity.


Ray

 

[cweber]

Like as you said, the professional machinists where I used to work at told me to get the biggest I could afford, particularly as I was not really 100% sure what else I might want to make one day. As such, I was originally looking at Taiwanese machines (for quality) as large as single phase could go, like follows:

AL-1000C - Centre Lathe (240V) 356 x 1000mm - 40mm Bore, Includes Digital Readout: http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L240D
BM-30A - Turret Milling Machine (240V) (X) 760mm (Y) 360mm (Z) 430mm Includes Digital Readout: http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/M603D

Then I started worrying the impacts on my long term health; about lifting heavy objects often, leaning over putting strain on my lower back and standing all the time exasperating issues with varicose veins. I became put off by the mass of tooling like vices, indexing heads, rotary tables, etc. I feared one day I'd lift one on the wrong angle and cause my back to go again (I am told I could end up in hospital one of these days). However, I also have to be careful not to spend too much time trying to protect myself and never end up doing anything!

I am not so much concerned about space as my garage has easy access and the room.

My final reason to look at benchtop sizes was due to ready made CNC capability. Since posting on this forum I am persuaded to learn manual first and convert to CNC later. However, I was concerned that although I can get power feeds for the above type machines later on, that they might not be suitable to convert to CNC later? I was also worried they might be too large for any small work? Otherwise, I'd be happy to look at the larger machines again.

Right at the moment I reckon I could manage with mini machines and just stick to projects that suite their size envelop. I know this will sound stupid but the mini's don't seem as "cool" as the big toys