Need help with 230V single phase wiring with Drum switch

[kdtop]

Hey all, I have seen this question many times on the net, and also on this forum. I have reviewed several from here, including these:

Problem with wiring of 1946 lathe and drum switch

Hello everyone. I've been searching for a solution to my wiring problem for days and the longer I search the more confused I get. I'm electrically challenged and flunked out of Electrical Engineering 101 in college. I enjoyed building Heathkit projects but that only required soldering skills...

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Drum Switch Question

Are drum switches used to turn the power on and off as well as changing direction or does one need a power switch to turn the power on and the drum switch only changes the direction ? Can one get drums for 120v 1ph, 240v 1ph and 240v 3ph or they all the same if rated high enough say like this on...

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Drum Switch again

Hello I know this topic has been discussed to death on here as I just read through every thread I could find with the search term "drum switch" ... so I apologize ahead of time if somewhere this particular configuration has been discussed but I was unable to find it. I have a single phase, dual...

www.hobby-machinist.com

But I can't seem to apply the information given to my situation. I apologize in advance for asking the same question that I am sure is brought up again and again.

I am refurbishing a 1935 South Bend lathe, though I'm pretty sure the motor is newer than that. Here is it's info tag below. I think it is capacitor start as I see a bump on it's side. The original wall plug is a 220 V plug and wiring seem to have been for high volts.

Left side of tag (right side is cut off, see other image below)



Right side of tag:




I have a Westinghouse Drum switch that looks like this (not cleaned up yet).



I verified that it has It has connections like this:






And with switch in the center, there is no connection. This seems standard to other posts I have seen about this.

When I took the wiring apart during painting etc, I tried to label the wires. But 2 or more of my tags came off unnoticed by me until too late. So I'm stuck.

The wires coming out of the motor were nicely labeled with P1, P2, T2, T3, T4, T5, T8



Below is the other end of wires that were connected to the motor:



It has red, black, yellow and orange #1 and orange #2

The wires coming out of the motor. connections were as follows (see also diagram below):

P1 --> orange #1
P2 --> capped, not used
T2+T3 --> orange #2
T4 --> yellow
T5 --> red
T8 --> black

These wire run to a junction box in the back of the lathe. And here they connect to a different set of wires that run to the drum switch. In the photo below, only these second set of wires are shown:



The connections here are as below (see also diagram below)

yellow --> switch pole 3
orange #1 --> switch pole 6
orange #2 --> ?? (tag lost)
red --> switch pole 4
black --> ?? (tag lost)

The secondary wires reach the end of the arm, where the switch is mounted:



There are 6 wires running from the junction box to the end of the switch arm. One of them seemed to be capped off and not used, though I'm not sure.

Here is the best I can diagram my current knowledge of the original setup.





To summarize:
I want Drum switch to switch this 220 V, single phase motor in forward, reverse directions, and of course also off.

Any help will be appreciated!

K. Toppenberg

 

[markba633csi]

Howdy, give me a few minutes and I'll post a sketch for you
-Mark

Try this:
Swap Red T5 and Black T8 if necessary to match motor rotation with switch handle
Be sure to connect ground to motor case for safety (not shown)

 

[kdtop]

Ahhh, this is SO GOOD!

For my (and other's) future reference, this is how the electricity will flow in the switch-left and switch-right configurations.

Switch Left:



and Switch Right:





This seems like a topological puzzle. I know it would make sense once I saw it, but I couldn't come up with this myself. I'm curious, is there a trick to figuring this out? Or does it come from experience?

Thanks again!

K Toppenberg

 

[markba633csi]

No trick, just a little theory
Someday soon I hope to put together a simple procedure for any motor and switch combo
But I'm not there yet..

 

[Musky_Hunter]

Getting ready to do this to my Jet. I came up with the same connections as Mark I just put L2 at the top of the switch. I am in the same boat as you with the motor not being original. Not sure if you have provisions in the current wiring but make sure to ground the drum switch if you can.

 

[kdtop]

Getting ready to do this to my Jet. I came up with the same connections as Mark I just put L2 at the top of the switch. I am in the same boat as you with the motor not being original. Not sure if you have provisions in the current wiring but make sure to ground the drum switch if you can.

Thanks. The drum will be connected to a metal arm, that is connected to the lathe, that will be grounded. Is that enough?

Thanks

 

[Musky_Hunter]

Thanks. The drum will be connected to a metal arm, that is connected to the lathe, that will be grounded. Is that enough?

Thanks

I am using the drum switch off my Bridgeport and it's a metal frame that was mounted to a metal bracket on the mill. It also had a dedicated ground going to the switch that tied into the ground from the wall. I don't think anything in my lathe is grounded to the lathe it's self. It all ties into the service ground from the wall so that's how I'm going to ground my switch.

 

[kdtop]

Working backwards from Mark's helpful diagram, I came up with steps as below that might help me or someone else next time.

These diagrams are for a 220 V single-phase motor with capacitor start.

As posted before, the connections this switch makes are as follows:






To wire this up, I found it helpful to diagram the two wiring targets for clockwise and counterclockwise arrangements:



Next, consider the inputs and outputs of the switch as follows. Input post 4 will switch to connect to either output post 3 or 2 depending on switch handle position. And input post 6 will always connect to output post 5, or be OFF when switch is in off position.



Next, connect L1:




Next, connect L2:





Next connect T4




And finally, the most tricky part in my opinion is to connect the remaining wire to the remaining post.






I hope this helps someone. Notice that the connections are symmetrical left vs right, so everything could be swapped left vs right. I mention this in case someone is trying to map my layout to what they have on their machine. Also, there is symmetry between the top row (posts 1 & 2) and the second row (posts 3 and 4). So these also might be swapped.

Again, this was for a 220 V single-phase motor with capacitor start.

Thanks
Kevin Toppenberg