Multifix qctp holders a big benefit over wedge type?

S

skcncx

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter Gold Member
Joined
May 2, 2022
Messages
356
How advantageous is the ability to easily rotate your toolpost holders when using the multi fix tool post?

It seems like a logical conclusion that being able to easily rotate your tool holder is the primary and maybe the only reason to choose the multifix tool post for your lathe over the aloris/clone wedge type qctp.

I imagine many users in both camps prefer their setup... there may be aspects I didn't consider, pros and cons.

I was about to order a bunch of holders for my Aloris BXA for my new lathe but then thought why not look at the multifix setup before I cross the point of no return. I found peweetools out of Germany who has several holders and seemingly high quality multifix tool post clones that are reasonably priced. He does seem to provide some proprietary holders and sizes. I like his parting bar holders and boring bar/morse taper sleeve holders. For my lathe, which has a 45mm (1.77") compound to center line they suggested size A and size E was likely too large. Size A may require a small shim under the toolpost to raise it up just a bit. Size A is one of the original standard sizes, so that would be nice if I wanted to source holders from another source.
 
Last edited:
Another questions/thought I had was...

How repeatable are these when rotating to different positions? Mainly concerned with returning to the most common positions for turning/boring which would be exactly parallel or perpendicular to the center line. I assume once you lock it down to your compound you never need to adjust it. But for those critical operations like parting where setup is key, do you still find your self fine tuning by loosening and tightengin down the toolpost? You only get to quickly adjust every 9 degrees. If so, that seems to invalidate some of it's value.
 
Another option would be the Dorian Quadra toolpost that indexes every 15 degrees. The Quadra has a different shape tool holder than the BXA so that you can install more than one at a time, so I'm not sure if it will take your BXA tool holders, but it is a similar style dovetail to the Aloris style you currently have. A big advantage of this one over a Multifix is you can use it as a turret tool post as well as a quick change. I have an Aloris style post and occasionally need to rotate my tool post for some operations, if you need to do that often enough, then this or the Multifix would be an advantage to quickly get back to perpendicular.


Kurtis who does YouTube videos for his company Cutting Edge Engineering has one on one of his lathes and the repeatability when rotating was within tenths.
 
Ischgl99 said:
Another option would be the Dorian Quadra toolpost that indexes every 15 degrees. The Quadra has a different shape tool holder than the BXA so that you can install more than one at a time, so I'm not sure if it will take your BXA tool holders, but it is a similar style dovetail to the Aloris style you currently have. A big advantage of this one over a Multifix is you can use it as a turret tool post as well as a quick change. I have an Aloris style post and occasionally need to rotate my tool post for some operations, if you need to do that often enough, then this or the Multifix would be an advantage to quickly get back to perpendicular.


Kurtis who does YouTube videos for his company Cutting Edge Engineering has one on one of his lathes and the repeatability when rotating was within tenths.
Click to expand...
I've seen that and I think Aloris has something similar, they are just too expensive. I'll have to check out Kurtis's videos.

The downside to what I'm finding with the multifix, is that while there are standard sizes, they are not interchangeable between suppliers. At least, pewetools conforms to the original, but based on their feedback, a size A holder from another supplier may not fit their tool post and vise versa. You are really banking on the fact these businesses continue to produce your tool holders and to the same specs.

Seem that with the wedge type, fewer critical dimensions, so easier to have compatibility, even if they are off the mark a bit.
 
I'm not a great machinist but I can vouch for the Pewe quality if you go the Multifix route. I have several versions of the original Swiss multifix including the Minder original, Enco, and Multisuise, and Multiquick. Pewe are as well made as any Chinese tool and a step above the Create Tool version. AXA in Germany are made somewhere in Europe and my understanding is the quality is equal or better than the Pewe but at a higher cost. A good Multifix will repeat within .001 and the ability to adjust the angle is useful. the 9 degree thing is a little less than ideal but I still like the system. I believe size E is the one you want. I have an A on my lathe with aprox 1.1" to the compound and 5/8" tooling. That size is rated for a 3 hp motor. E is on my CVA which is the same as a 10EE and I can fit a 3/4" tool in it on that machine. You want the compound to be 4" wide. E can handle up to about a 7 hp motor.

If you go the Pewe route, Peter is very helpful and will dial in your needs. Dave
 
Beckerkumm said:
I'm not a great machinist but I can vouch for the Pewe quality if you go the Multifix route. I have several versions of the original Swiss multifix including the Minder original, Enco, and Multisuise, and Multiquick. Pewe are as well made as any Chinese tool and a step above the Create Tool version. AXA in Germany are made somewhere in Europe and my understanding is the quality is equal or better than the Pewe but at a higher cost. A good Multifix will repeat within .001 and the ability to adjust the angle is useful. the 9 degree thing is a little less than ideal but I still like the system. I believe size E is the one you want. I have an A on my lathe with aprox 1.1" to the compound and 5/8" tooling. That size is rated for a 3 hp motor. E is on my CVA which is the same as a 10EE and I can fit a 3/4" tool in it on that machine. You want the compound to be 4" wide. E can handle up to about a 7 hp motor.

If you go the Pewe route, Peter is very helpful and will dial in your needs. Dave
Click to expand...
Thanks for the input. Yes, Peter has been very helpful and he has some unique holders. I'm leaning this way, but before I take the plunge want to make sure I know what I'm getting into. Peter suggested the A size, knowing that my PM 1340 GT w/ 2HP motor has 1.7" compound to center line and about 3" wide compound. I originally thought the E was the right size... it does seem I'm right in between A and E. After looking, the shorter tool holders in the A series, which means less over hang, would provide more rigidity than the longer E series holders. Tough call, not something you just switch afterwards. I have stocked up on mostly 5/8 tooling as well.

I'd like to find the dimensions of the A and E series, maybe mock something up so I can realize the difference in hand.

I like that he has a "blank" tool holder option as well, I'd likely get one just to have.
 
The width of the compound is the limiting factor. The distance to the center line is plenty for the E but it will hang over the edge of the compound so the A is probably the right size with a spacer under it. Also less expensive and you don't need heavier tooling with a 2 hp motor. Dave
 
Yeah, the Dorian is pricey, but looks like a good solution. I have a 1236T and is just a bit too short for one of those, so I have an Aloris AXA knockoff. I’m still considering a Multifix since I would like to have the ability to quickly rotate the tool as needed and return to square, but the cost of the tool holders is holding me back.

One other thing about the Multifix, if you angle your compound to cut threads, you would be at 27 or 35 degrees if you pin it with the compound at 0 degrees. One work around for that is to pin it with the compound at 29.5ish degrees and leave it there, or just use the cross slide to thread. That’s how I do it on my lathe and don’t have a problem cutting threads, but I don’t cut large coarse threads, so it could be a problem then.
 
I just leave the compound at 29- 99% of the time. I wouldn't bother with a pin on a size A or E. The only benefit is the Pewe has three holes so you can finesse the degree thing in three degree increments. I've never needed that and my compound doesn't have a T nut and I don't want to drill into the base. Dave
 
Dorian Quadra will take either standard tool holders one at a time or you they have ones with the 45 degree corners if loading the QCTP with multiple holders. Aloris also has their variant of indexing QCTP. I had considered the Dorian Quadra a while back, but when it comes down to my typical use I rarely need the indexing function. So nice but more trouble than it is worth for hobbyist type of work. The Multifix route would be expensive due to the cost of the holders, as well as the increments are a bit wonky. I also saw a few failure modes of the Dorian Quadra, they use a ball detent system and under load they had the potential to fail (granted the failure I saw was a CNC machines so it may have been a catastrophic failure no matter what). Haven't used the Multifix, and the lack of interchangeability/standard would be a concern. Just more of a FYI, when I set my QCTP holders parallel to the chuck, the process takes me like 30 seconds. I use a 123 block against the chuck and bring the tool holder hard against the block and tighten the QCTP nut. It is dead on every time I would not save any time with an indexed QCTP.

Indexable Tool Posts (Pg. 30-33)

Indexable Tool Post Sets
www.aloris.com
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top