[Newbie] Mini Lathe, Speed Reduction Gears-harmonics?

SmokeWalker

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I just bought and installed this speed reduction/torque increasing set:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321890757046?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

But at a particular RPM (which I can change by adjusting the belt tension) I get a little "whirring" resonance/harmonic sound out of the belt. I can see it start to flap at this speed. H or L gear. Is this normal? I can change what RPM makes the sound happen, but where should I put it? Higher in the speed range, or lower? The HF instructions suggest giving yourself about 1/4" belt deflection when you put moderate finger pressure at the widest place in the belt train, and that leaves the "sour spot" (opposite of sweet spot) somewhere at the low end. Around 150 RPM..

And advice?
 
Back in a previous life, I fixed cars for a living. If I had a dollar for every car I saw with a whining timing belt, I would be retired...
I was almost always caused by the belt being too tight. The teeth on the belt trap air as they engage the sprockets, and the sound comes from the air escaping as the belt compresses. Many manufacturers use formed steel sprockets and drilled small holes in the bottom of each leaf to allow air to escape.

Any way, the whole "x amount of deflection under some type of finger pressure" is a horrible standard for setting tension. Try this is instead, you should be able to twist the belt 90 degrees with minimal to moderate pressure using just your thumb and 1 finger on it's longest span. You will quickly know if the belt is too tight because it will require extra effort to get it to 90 degrees.
It is normal for a belt to flap or vibrate when turning off the machine because the spindle is trying to ever run the motor. Timing belts vibrate more than v-belts during shut down because they are less rigid. It is also normal for a belt to flap or vibrate at high speed, and once again a timing belt is more prone to this than a v-belt, and a timing belt will set up a more severe resonance than a v-belt. Well designed machines use idler pulleys against the timing belt to stop this vibration, if you study a variety of machines, you will see that v-belts will often run several feet between sheaves, but timing belts almost always have multiple idlers. My big planer for example has over three feet of span between the cutter head and motor sheaves and there is almost not vibration while running.
Turning a timing belt (or any belt really) around a very tight sprocket will also cause unwanted vibration because the belt is trying to spring back straight as it exits the sprocket, this is magnified if the belt it too tight. This can be reduced by loosening the belt enough to reduce the high tension, but not so much that the belt can gain large lateral momentum.

If the sprocket you purchased is smaller than the factory one, it would not surprise me at all if it vibrates and sets up harmonics. I would start with getting a good belt (I would do this even if there was no harmonics, good belts make a big difference in finish). Stiff machine belts that are designed to not stretch will have a low tolerance for small sheaves. Check the manufacturers web site, they will publish minimum sprocket diameter.

Lastly, you might want to double check that the pulleys are actually properly made. If the teeth are not the correct size, it will always cause noise and vibration. Just because some random guy on Ebay can program a CNC to cut a sprocket, does not mean that the same guy knows the first thing about belts and pulleys - there is a good chance he just copied measurements from some other pulley (or even worse, took measurements from the belt) rather than starting with pitch going from there. The choice of a trapezoidal tooth is also a really poor one, round tooth belts are quieter and smoother - you do not need the improved power transfer of a trapezoidal tooth. Just looking at the picture of the sprocket, the leaves look too thick to my eye. Normally the gullet is the same or wider than the leaf, your pulley looks to have a much wider leaf than. Compare to a commercial sprocket
http://www.designatronics.com/images/center-distance.jpg
 
Thank you! That was an exhaustive response. Your 90º recommendation helped.
As for the gear itself in question, the belt fit (to my eye) actually looks amazing. No visible slop between belt and gulleys, or between peaks. It fits…as well as I could ever imagine, but I don't have belt experience. I bought it because I read a couple very positive reviews about the set, and I was very impressed. The gear attachment wasn't 100% perfect, as there was a tenon on the little gear that prevented me from being able to put the retainer ring back on, and the "set screws" were a joke. (Thread was too coarse for the amount and type of material the gear was made of, Al. i.e. The set screws had too little to screw into.) So I cut off some of the tenon, and put a special made delrin washer behind the gear, and the retaining ring back on the shaft. With a keyway, there should be no movement.

Anyhow, I want to thank you again; for taking the time to help a n00b and giving such a thorough speech to make it stick.

Pierre



Back in a previous life, I fixed cars for a living. If I had a dollar for every car I saw with a whining timing belt, I would be retired...
I was almost always caused by the belt being too tight. The teeth on the belt trap air as they engage the sprockets, and the sound comes from the air escaping as the belt compresses. Many manufacturers use formed steel sprockets and drilled small holes in the bottom of each leaf to allow air to escape.

Any way, the whole "x amount of deflection under some type of finger pressure" is a horrible standard for setting tension. Try this is instead, you should be able to twist the belt 90 degrees with minimal to moderate pressure using just your thumb and 1 finger on it's longest span. You will quickly know if the belt is too tight because it will require extra effort to get it to 90 degrees.
It is normal for a belt to flap or vibrate when turning off the machine because the spindle is trying to ever run the motor. Timing belts vibrate more than v-belts during shut down because they are less rigid. It is also normal for a belt to flap or vibrate at high speed, and once again a timing belt is more prone to this than a v-belt, and a timing belt will set up a more severe resonance than a v-belt. Well designed machines use idler pulleys against the timing belt to stop this vibration, if you study a variety of machines, you will see that v-belts will often run several feet between sheaves, but timing belts almost always have multiple idlers. My big planer for example has over three feet of span between the cutter head and motor sheaves and there is almost not vibration while running.
Turning a timing belt (or any belt really) around a very tight sprocket will also cause unwanted vibration because the belt is trying to spring back straight as it exits the sprocket, this is magnified if the belt it too tight. This can be reduced by loosening the belt enough to reduce the high tension, but not so much that the belt can gain large lateral momentum.

If the sprocket you purchased is smaller than the factory one, it would not surprise me at all if it vibrates and sets up harmonics. I would start with getting a good belt (I would do this even if there was no harmonics, good belts make a big difference in finish). Stiff machine belts that are designed to not stretch will have a low tolerance for small sheaves. Check the manufacturers web site, they will publish minimum sprocket diameter.

Lastly, you might want to double check that the pulleys are actually properly made. If the teeth are not the correct size, it will always cause noise and vibration. Just because some random guy on Ebay can program a CNC to cut a sprocket, does not mean that the same guy knows the first thing about belts and pulleys - there is a good chance he just copied measurements from some other pulley (or even worse, took measurements from the belt) rather than starting with pitch going from there. The choice of a trapezoidal tooth is also a really poor one, round tooth belts are quieter and smoother - you do not need the improved power transfer of a trapezoidal tooth. Just looking at the picture of the sprocket, the leaves look too thick to my eye. Normally the gullet is the same or wider than the leaf, your pulley looks to have a much wider leaf than. Compare to a commercial sprocket
http://www.designatronics.com/images/center-distance.jpg
 
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