Mach 3 processor platform...

[Ray C]

Folks,

I need to setup a controller platform that will run Mach 3 software. I'm not fond of bringing my higher-end laptop into the shop and it just so happens I have a couple Intel DN2800MT Atom Motherboards. The little Atom is a dual core (up to 4 threads) runs at 1.86 GHz and can hold 4GB of DDR3. I've used these boards extensively for other dedicated purposes (doing intense FFT for audio analysis along with a lightweight web server and SQL db) and they work great especially when outfitted with a nice SSD. I've never run Win7 on them but, they run full blown Fedora Desktop with ease.

Does anyone have any guesses about how suitable of a platform this would be to run Win 7 and Mach 3? This platform would not be used for general purpose computing -just a dedicated platform for a Mach 3 CNC machine.


Ray

 

[xalky]

I'm not sure if you saw the requirements here: http://www.machsupport.com/software/mach3/

On my CNC plasma table, the controller manufacturer reccomends not running anything but Windows XP. minimum 1.6ghz processor. Eliminate all background apps in xp. No interrupts whatsoever. It really should be a dedicated machine with nothing else on it. Disable the network card. I can dig up the whole setup for you if you'd like. You want this thing to be bare bones and lean, with all resources going to controlling your platform.

Mine wouldn't run right on windows 7. Some guys have gotten it to run. XP is pretty bullet proof for this application.

 

[dave2176]

Ray,

I've seen several people running Atom processors successfully. Mach says you need a dedicated video card so the processor doesn't have to do video. Win 7 32 bit is fine.

Dave

 

[Ray C]

@Xalky: Thanks. I see the SW specs say 1GHz and 512k RAM... I think the Atom will do fine at 1.86GHz and 4 GB RAM. And yes, I plan to do a minimum installation and shut off all but the necessary background services.

@dave2176: Thanks... It's reassuring to know others are getting away with it. XP huh? Geeze, I'm not a Microsoft expert but, if memory serves, Microsoft stopped supporting XP several years ago. I actually thought it was the best OS MS ever had. Do you know if you can even still get a copy of XP anywhere?

I noticed that Mach3 only requires Open GL3.0 or higher. That is an ancient version of GL which pre-dates any software use of the hardware GPGPU accelerator cores. At least this is a sign they're not using the graphics processing power to offload mathematical calculations from their normal software processing. A GPGPU can crunch math a couple thousand times faster than the normal CPU. It's obvious they're not relying on the GPGPU so, a slightly faster CPU should be OK.

Anyhow, I've got two of these motherboards and all I need to make them functional is an enclosure and a hard disk. The small sized SSDs are dirt cheap and have really snappy performance... I'll let y'a all know how this turns-out.

Ray

 

[Joe0121]

@Xalky: Thanks. I see the SW specs say 1GHz and 512k RAM... I think the Atom will do fine at 1.86GHz and 4 GB RAM. And yes, I plan to do a minimum installation and shut off all but the necessary background services.

@dave2176: Thanks... It's reassuring to know others are getting away with it. XP huh? Geeze, I'm not a Microsoft expert but, if memory serves, Microsoft stopped supporting XP several years ago. I actually thought it was the best OS MS ever had. Do you know if you can even still get a copy of XP anywhere?

I noticed that Mach3 only requires Open GL3.0 or higher. That is an ancient version of GL which pre-dates any software use of the hardware GPGPU accelerator cores. At least this is a sign they're not using the graphics processing power to offload mathematical calculations from their normal software processing. A GPGPU can crunch math a couple thousand times faster than the normal CPU. It's obvious they're not relying on the GPGPU so, a slightly faster CPU should be OK.

Anyhow, I've got two of these motherboards and all I need to make them functional is an enclosure and a hard disk. The small sized SSDs are dirt cheap and have really snappy performance... I'll let y'a all know how this turns-out.

Ray

Windows XP with SP 3 is in fact still supported by Microsoft due in large part to the federal government and hospitals. There are a large number of client side application used in those industries that wont run on anything newer. Or upgrading the OS would require upgrading the hardware which is $$$ those organizations don't want to spend. I still see Microsoft server 2000 still in production in places.

You could almost get away with a Raspberry Pi Model B with the Proc Overclocked to 1GHZ. I have mine at 900 MHZ and it is stable. Personally I'd buy a cheap laptop of CL.

- - - Updated - - -

Folks,

I need to setup a controller platform that will run Mach 3 software. I'm not fond of bringing my higher-end laptop into the shop and it just so happens I have a couple Intel DN2800MT Atom Motherboards. The little Atom is a dual core (up to 4 threads) runs at 1.86 GHz and can hold 4GB of DDR3. I've used these boards extensively for other dedicated purposes (doing intense FFT for audio analysis along with a lightweight web server and SQL db) and they work great especially when outfitted with a nice SSD. I've never run Win7 on them but, they run full blown Fedora Desktop with ease.

Does anyone have any guesses about how suitable of a platform this would be to run Win 7 and Mach 3? This platform would not be used for general purpose computing -just a dedicated platform for a Mach 3 CNC machine.


Ray

BTW Linux Mint 16 KDE > *

Fatdog also runs like a dream on the Atom CPU's.

Also here as an option with a bit more horsepower than the PI:

http://beagleboard.org/Products/BeagleBone%20Black

- - - Updated - - -

Folks,

I need to setup a controller platform that will run Mach 3 software. I'm not fond of bringing my higher-end laptop into the shop and it just so happens I have a couple Intel DN2800MT Atom Motherboards. The little Atom is a dual core (up to 4 threads) runs at 1.86 GHz and can hold 4GB of DDR3. I've used these boards extensively for other dedicated purposes (doing intense FFT for audio analysis along with a lightweight web server and SQL db) and they work great especially when outfitted with a nice SSD. I've never run Win7 on them but, they run full blown Fedora Desktop with ease.

Does anyone have any guesses about how suitable of a platform this would be to run Win 7 and Mach 3? This platform would not be used for general purpose computing -just a dedicated platform for a Mach 3 CNC machine.


Ray

BTW Linux Mint 16 KDE > *

Fatdog also runs like a dream on the Atom CPU's.

Also here as an option with a bit more horsepower than the PI:

http://beagleboard.org/Products/BeagleBone%20Black

 

[xalky]

@Xalky: Thanks. I see the SW specs say 1GHz and 512k RAM... I think the Atom will do fine at 1.86GHz and 4 GB RAM. And yes, I plan to do a minimum installation and shut off all but the necessary background services.

@dave2176: Thanks... It's reassuring to know others are getting away with it. XP huh? Geeze, I'm not a Microsoft expert but, if memory serves, Microsoft stopped supporting XP several years ago. I actually thought it was the best OS MS ever had. Do you know if you can even still get a copy of XP anywhere?

I noticed that Mach3 only requires Open GL3.0 or higher. That is an ancient version of GL which pre-dates any software use of the hardware GPGPU accelerator cores. At least this is a sign they're not using the graphics processing power to offload mathematical calculations from their normal software processing. A GPGPU can crunch math a couple thousand times faster than the normal CPU. It's obvious they're not relying on the GPGPU so, a slightly faster CPU should be OK.

Anyhow, I've got two of these motherboards and all I need to make them functional is an enclosure and a hard disk. The small sized SSDs are dirt cheap and have really snappy performance... I'll let y'a all know how this turns-out.

Ray

I'm guessing that the higher cpu speeds required for plasma cutting has a lot to do with the speed at which these things cut thin materials at. plotting all the curve points at high speed and all the stepper points requires a higher speed processor. You likely wouldn't encounter half those stepper speeds when machining. When cutting 22 guage material, my plasma likely goes about almost as fast as a pen plotter. It's cool to watch.

Marcel

 

[woodguy]

I use an atom based 1U computer running XP and it works just fine. The system does use a smoothstepper though to offload the pulse generation.

 

[Ray C]

As for different platforms... I already have two of these motherboards and they've already depreciated to zero value. Initially, there were three identical units purchased for a prototype and used for regulatory testing. One was incinerated (intentionally) and the other two survived the tests just fine and I used them on my desktop for experimental things for many months afterward. -They're fine. These are the original Intel boards. Intel no longer manufactures boards and all motherboard production is now outsourced to a Taiwan manufacturer... They're actually 10 bucks cheaper per board now and I was buying them for $119 in lots of 250.

I just bought two sets of cheap enclosures, 120GB SSDs and WiFi network adapters all for under $160 bucks. I also dug-up my original purchased copy of Windows XP. I'll need to convert the image to a USB bootable but, that's easy. I hope it will still properly register with Microsoft. I had a 3 license kit and probably only used one of the licenses... We'll see. I also have a 5-pack of Win7 licenses with 2 or 3 copies left. I'll try that on one of them to see how that goes.

EDIT: As far as I know, Mach only runs on Windows-based OS's... I've got a fairly good handle on computer hardware but, really didn't know how much of a dog/hog Mach is. Crappy software is just that -and not even a super-computer can make it seem to run well. I have ZERO background with Mach and needed a reference point for what kind of platform is necessary for it.

Ray

 

[dave2176]

Yes Mach 3 only runs on Windows so the Linux variants are out. Did your mill come with a smooth stepper for USB control? If I was running USB I would run Windows 7 and not even think twice about XP. If I had 32 bit Windows 7 or any XP I would drop the memory to 2GB. XP support ends in April so no security patches after that. If your Atom platform has an available slot I would buy a cheap video card to offload video from the CPU. Mach doesn't require much for video.

Linux CNC is an option which is a mix of Ubuntu and the EMC control software and is available at no cost but it only supports parallel ports. The story is that they will never support USB because it takes control of motors away from the software and turns it over to different hardware thereby entering unknown behavior. I still have it dual booting on my platform since it is parallel based so I can test it as I move forward in the testing phase.

I would stay away from a laptop. They claim the lower power control in their hardware can cause issues with Mach.

Dave

 

[Ray C]

Thanks, Dave.

I really don't know what the machine comes with as I haven't picked it up yet. I was going to this week but, we got hit with a terrible cold spell here and in my area, when this happens, the natural gas lines drop pressure and my furnace must be manually reset when that happens. -As such, I'm stuck at home until this cold snap passes.

Anyhow, I know the machine is USB controlled but don't know if it has this "smooth stepper" -which I presume is a buffering technique to smooth-out data transmission over the USB wire. I once did a lot of USB serial programming. -Basically, USB works but, "ain't real pretty under the hood". As long as you don't have too many devices pushing the limit of the standard (of which there are way too many variants and half-implemented devices out there) -and as long as the internal hub controller in your computer is fairly stable, it works ok. From my own experiences, it doesn't pay to purchase dirt-cheap, no-name USB hubs and unshielded cables.

I've heard that Ethernet controllers are the way to go. For now, I'll use what it comes with.

I appreciate the info about Linux CNC vis-à-vis parallel port only support. I get it.

I have still not purchased the CAM program yet as I'm waiting to take a free online tutorial offered by MecSoft (who is the partner for Geomagic/Alibre CAD). I've decided to get that package but, won't spring for the cost until everything is setup.

As for laptop vs. desktop machines... Even the most expensive laptops contain the "Mobile" version of the CPU. A Core i5 or i7 laptop processor, operating at the same speed will only have about 40% of the processing power of an equivalent desktop version of the same processor model. The mobile versions have vast numbers of internal features disabled. Also, laptop motherboards typically do not have as sophisticated of a system controller chipset. The net effect is that desktops will beat the pants off a laptop hands-down -almost universally.

That said, I use HP EliteBooks almost exclusively and they're outfitted with dedicated micro-graphics cards. As such, they ain't cheap -and I don't like bringing them into the shop.

Ray

Yes Mach 3 only runs on Windows so the Linux variants are out. Did your mill come with a smooth stepper for USB control? If I was running USB I would run Windows 7 and not even think twice about XP. If I had 32 bit Windows 7 or any XP I would drop the memory to 2GB. XP support ends in April so no security patches after that. If your Atom platform has an available slot I would buy a cheap video card to offload video from the CPU. Mach doesn't require much for video.

Linux CNC is an option which is a mix of Ubuntu and the EMC control software and is available at no cost but it only supports parallel ports. The story is that they will never support USB because it takes control of motors away from the software and turns it over to different hardware thereby entering unknown behavior. I still have it dual booting on my platform since it is parallel based so I can test it as I move forward in the testing phase.

I would stay away from a laptop. They claim the lower power control in their hardware can cause issues with Mach.

Dave