Lathe or Mill…I can't decide and I'm going nutz

You "mill first" guys are ignoring all the old machinist texts that say over and over that the lathe is the primary machine in the shop. I made out with a milling attachment and a 12" Atlas just fine as I tended to do small work. However,I did say that a 10" or 12" lathe is what would be desirable. I mean,you HAVE to have SOMETHING to work with that is large enough to do the work.

Fact is,old time machine shops were always equipped with a lathe,and much less frequently with a mill. There was a reason why,unless you just want to ignore historic facts.
 
The "curly maple" surface is easy to do. I had noticed that you left a swirly surface on your main brass plate. You could try variations on decorating the surface with the abrasive paper,by moving it about differently.

George, it you have not been there the Henry Ford Greenfield Village where he collected Edison's shops (Buildings taken apart brick by brick numbered and rebuilt) and inventions in Dearborn Michigan might be a nice visit for you. Ford moved the buildings and equipment from New Jersey where Edison was from to there. They have probably hundreds of small machines built by him and staff. Great quality machine work. I look at those and marvel at the workmanship with hand tools. As a kid me and probably most everyone else thought Edison was from here with all the school trips, hearing the "Mary had a little lamb" original recording played by staff there. Many times. Great place to visit for any machinist.
 
I am retired from 40 years of museum work,Cadillac. I was the master musical instrument maker from 1970 to 1986,then the master tool maker in Williamsburg from 1986 to 2009. I had begun making tools to use in the 18th. C. shop in 1970,as well as instruments to open the shop with. I made everything down to the shelves and the workbenches. By 1986,they had begged me into becoming the toolmaker for all the historic trades shops since I had a great deal of varied experience in both hand and machine work in several different media.

Yes,I know that museum,and many others. I used to go study behind the scenes at the Smithsonian in the early 70's. I got to see and study in the restoration shops that the public does not get to see.
 
Still waiting for the people that said buy a lathe and not a mill to pipe in and tell how to make these (Flat brass pieces) parts on the lathe he bought.

Slitting saw mounted on an arbor on the spindle to saw them to size. Work mounted to cross slide. Some people use a plate to make it like a little table saw. I have also seen little bandsaws driven off a spindle. You can see these still available commercially with a shopsmith but they came from standard operations on a lathe.

Edges milled with stock mounted on angle bracket on the cross slide with an endmill. Alternatively just clamp it down on the cross slide and use a fly cutter on spindle to clean up the edges. Much like using a woodworking router table but with the crossfeed feeding the stock. A lot of lathes have t-slots on the cross slide to make these operations easier.

Faceplate mounted stock for surfacing. Alternatively, a boring bar between centers that you feed the stock under with the work mounted on the cross slide.

You can even do the drilling with the work mounted to the faceplate. Just takes a bit longer to position on the plate.

I have also seen lathes adapted to be buffers, disk sanders, drum sanders, and just about any other operation you can think of.

Not knocking mills, but there really isn't anything you can do on a mill that you cannot do on a lathe. Most times, the same operation on a lathe is more rigid. The mill does however win on work envelope. A horizontal mill is basically a lathe with a really short bed and a really long cross slide that moves up and down.

<edit> There are also mods to use lathe as power hacksaw.
 
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I am retired from 40 years of museum work,Cadillac. I was the master musical instrument maker from 1970 to 1986,then the master tool maker in Williamsburg from 1986 to 2009. I had begun making tools to use in the 18th. C. shop in 1970,as well as instruments to open the shop with. I made everything down to the shelves and the workbenches. By 1986,they had begged me into becoming the toolmaker for all the historic trades shops since I had a great deal of varied experience in both hand and machine work in several different media.

Yes,I know that museum,and many others. I used to go study behind the scenes at the Smithsonian in the early 70's. I got to see and study in the restoration shops that the public does not get to see.

Dadgum, George, that is impressive. Not surprising at all, but still impressive.

I ALWAYS appreciate any light you have to shed on any subject. Thanks for sharing your expertise.
 
I have no doubt he can mill it on a lathe. The set up's are there. You just have to make them work. It's just the cost to buy one big enough to hold the work. Just comes down to how he wants to spend his money. I just figure if he is gonna buy a mill down the road, then a x/y table is more usefull long term. I will never discount what can be done on a lathe or a small machine. But I wont discount a mill either. Both can do the work with the right set up's.
 
Point taken. I'll look into the xy table for the drill press.

I'm retired and also run a website where I build and sell accessories for Ham Radio operators. I'm also a CW (Morse Code) guy, and love cw keys and would like to share unique designs with other ops. SO…I don't intend to set up a big operation and would sell and build keys one at a time to order. So it's a hobby where I make some extra pocket money and have some fun tinkering around the shop, not a full blown business.

I could go out and borrow a crap load of money, but this is a very narrow market and it would be difficult to build up enough volume to justify establishing a production line.

Steve



With the very small lathe there is not much choice for a little milling attachment, NONE made for it as far as I know to hold 4X6 stock, or real any at all for that. Just to be clear, the lathe first people are assuming someone would buy probably a 10-14 inch swing lathe with the ability for 4 jaw to handle the large flat plate. Not the 7 inch with no chance for 4 jaw swing for 4X6 inch part or no ability for sizable milling attachment.

No chance for 4 jaw on that. But GREAT for small round parts for the keys.

I still think best option is for the X Y table for the drill press as stop gap.

The other question is what the final plan is. Is the plan a hobby type output with a part or two per week, no tax implications really? Or plan for real quantity sales with several parts made per day, minute? If the plan is to fill a need and sell a quantity then it is better to start a business to make them and get a loan as needed for the right equipment to do it right, pump out parts and cover all costs. Exciting situation with lot of info from people who have done businesses here. People sometimes think it is not possible to get a loan for a small business but something like this is just the cost of a car loan really. Just need a bank to work with you with some collateral.

Sounds like first make several to sell, see how it goes. Like everyone else. Still need a mill like situation to make the parts same.
 
I hope the OP reads the post above,about using a slitting saw on the lathe. Those type things were described in using a Unimat lathe,though I have never used one of them.I have seen the accessory list,though.

I would,however,thoroughly recommend that the operator keep his fingers out of the way of kick back. Remember that with some heat,metal might close up on the cut and throw the work backwards. Even a small lathe can cause a lot of injury to your fingers.. Always keep that in mind.

Since the small plane I posted above was made mostly with hand tools,I suggest that a few minutes with a hack saw and a file could produce the base plate of the telegraph key. The REAL work is the final smoothing up and polishing. Of course,with a lathe the size I recommended,you could mill it out.



I was pressed for money too,when I started out. What I did was save the money I made making tools for others,mostly collectors. I put that money back into the shop,buying better equipment. Everything I now have paid for itself. I have a policy of not using household income for buying my shop stuff.

You need to get connected to the Early American Industries Assiciation group. The EAIA. Pay the dues and go to their meetings. They always have the most delightful "flea market" of tools. You can exhibit your keys there,and almost certainly get a collection of followers who want to order your keys. You do need to remember that you will be dealing with experts,and get the details of your keys correct. Use your lathe to make those small parts like the knobs correct,and correctly knurled. Find correct slot head screws. Those things will make or break the money value of your wares.

I suggest that you buy a small horizontal/vertical metal cutting bandsaw ASAP. They are less than $300.00,and are invaluable time savers for the grunt work of sawing things out. I NEVER RECOMMEND HF. HF stuff is sometimes o.k.,but I think most of it is the cheapest pick of the Chinese machinery. You don't want to have your motor blow out. They often are cheap at best. I had a 3 H.P. TAIWAN made one arc across the bearings and had to be replaced. They do not dip their windings in insulating varnish. And,Taiwan is a LOT better than Chinese. Also,open the little gearbox if you buy one. Make sure there are no stray chips left in there,and it is lubricated,too.

Some here LIKE HF stuff. I am cautious about their offerings. with good reason. I buy twine and acid brushes there!:)

I distrust the electronics of Chinese things the most. I bought a JET wet wheel grinder,and it stopped working after an hour. I found out that the electrical press on connectors are literally as thin as beer cans. They crack when the operators push them on. I soldered mine and they work. But,that sort of thing is so crappy and irritating!! I was lucky to figure it out. All I got from Jet was garbage about how PROUD they are of their machines. DEALERS told me that those Jet grinders often do not work right out of the box. Mine was brand new too.
 
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I could go out and borrow a crap load of money, but this is a very narrow market and it would be difficult to build up enough volume to justify establishing a production line.

Steve, if the market for cw vintage style keys would be profitable now we'll be submerged by Chinese replicas :lmao:
Good luck for your XY table hunting!
Maybe you can post a request for it into the "Classified Ads" section of the forum, I'm sure it's read mainly by good machinists ;)
 
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