Is there a listing of types of material and when/where to use them?

[DAN_IN_MN]

Saw a post of someone finding some SS and was asking about if it was a good material to make tool holders.

Is there a listing available on here that would help out?

Kind of like one video I was watching he suggested using water hardening drill rod to make a collet pin stop.

When are A2 and other tool steels needed to be used? This is the type of list/thread I'm looking for. Not only for myself but I'm sure others that don't have the machining experience that some of you do. Maybe a list of the names of the different types of materials.

I know this is a very broad question. Maybe someone could refine it or break it down into categories.

If this list doesn't exist, I have another question. This would be for Nelson. Does the forum software have a provision for a member editable Wiki? Such as this one that I've been active in.

http://cxgl.wikispaces.com/home

Any member can add material or edit others work. When we write up something we know it can and will be edited.

Nelson. If you don't like the link, feel free to remove it and other comments made towards it.

 

[OldMachinist]

In Machinery's Handbook there's a section under standard steels with a general applications list and in the tool steels section there's a quick reference guide for tool steels applications. I have the 21st edition in the house and they are on pages 2115-2119 and 2071-2072.

 

[Ray C]

Dan,

Great question and topic! Somewhere here, there is/was a metalfinishing section and the intent was to provide this kind of information for various metals listed by type. I'm not sure where that section is but suspect it's not gone but, relocated. Sadly though there wasn't a lot written there.

I'll take a stab at outlining the basics. I'll have to continue in a few posts...

Steel and steel alloy numbering (in the USA) is a 4 digit number, defined by the AISI, like 1018 or 1045 or 4140. BTW, stainless steel is a special case and does not apply here...

The first two digits (10 for example) define the basic formulation. 10, 11 and 12 are simple non-alloys meaning they only contain one metallic element (FE, Iron) and several other elements such as sulfur, molybdenum etc. The next two digits are the percentage of C (carbon). 18 means 0.18% carbon, 45 means 0.45% carbon. Low carbon steel has less than 0.45% C, mid carbon is (roughly) 0.45 to 0.70, high carbon goes up to 0.95% C. Tool steels depart from the normal numbering convention and contain 1 to 2% C. Cast iron by the way is upward of 2-5%.

Alloys contain multiple metallic elements such as FE (Iron), MN (magnesium), CR (chromium) and many others... as well as non-metallic elements.

One thing in common is that the higher the carbon content the harder the metal can be once it's heat treated. Fully annealed steel is said to be in it's normalized state and is in it's softest state. Virtually all steels cut/machined very easily in this condition. Low carbon steels do not harden thoroughly and only produce a skin (case) of hardness maybe up to 30 or 40 thou. Various mid-carbon steels and alloys can usually be hardened to deeper levels -and in some cases, be almost hardened all the way through.

... Hard vs Tough:

Usually, hard metals can fracture easily. They don't bend but rather snap. Tough metals are the opposite. Stainless steel by the way, is extremely soft but, unbelievably tough. Sometimes hardness is needed just for scratch resistances or provide improved surface wear properties. Case hardening low carbon steel is fine for this purpose. Alloys, tool steels etc, will harden much deeper and in many cases, the tensile strength of the steel will increase 2-4 times over it's normalized condition. And yes, there are metals that are both hard and tough...

...

OK, let me know if I'm headed in the right direction with what you want to know.


Ray

Saw a post of someone finding some SS and was asking about if it was a good material to make tool holders.

Is there a listing available on here that would help out?

Kind of like one video I was watching he suggested using water hardening drill rod to make a collet pin stop.

When are A2 and other tool steels needed to be used? This is the type of list/thread I'm looking for. Not only for myself but I'm sure others that don't have the machining experience that some of you do. Maybe a list of the names of the different types of materials.

I know this is a very broad question. Maybe someone could refine it or break it down into categories.

If this list doesn't exist, I have another question. This would be for Nelson. Does the forum software have a provision for a member editable Wiki? Such as this one that I've been active in.

http://cxgl.wikispaces.com/home

Any member can add material or edit others work. When we write up something we know it can and will be edited.

Nelson. If you don't like the link, feel free to remove it and other comments made towards it.

 

[stern]

Great post, and I would really love to see a similar Wiki site over here. From what I gather (not up on net stuff these days) the Wiki site can be set up by anyone (like the CX one) and permissions given to others to post/edit on it. It would sure help new guys like me, as what I know about machining could fit in my garage ... oh wait, it does LMAO.

 

[Ray C]

Not trying to be a party-pooper here but, running those Wikis and related software is never as easy as you might think. BTDT! You eventually get into access permission problems, formatting problems, style problems -the list goes on.

I really thing a few good posts here possibly linked to an article is an effective means of disseminating information. The tools are here and already exist.


Ray

Great post, and I would really love to see a similar Wiki site over here. From what I gather (not up on net stuff these days) the Wiki site can be set up by anyone (like the CX one) and permissions given to others to post/edit on it. It would sure help new guys like me, as what I know about machining could fit in my garage ... oh wait, it does LMAO.

 

[higgite]

It's not a list per se, but Speedy Metals' website describes what each material is commonly used for. It's a bit of a bother as you have to call up each type of stock one at a time, A-1 drill rod, W-1 drill rod, 12L14 steel rod, 360 brass tubing, etc., etc. But, it's better than nothing for this novice.

HTH,
Tom

 

[stern]

Not trying to be a party-pooper here but, running those Wikis and related software is never as easy as you might think. BTDT! You eventually get into access permission problems, formatting problems, style problems -the list goes on.

I really thing a few good posts here possibly linked to an article is an effective means of disseminating information. The tools are here and already exist.


Ray

You are right, its a lot of work and if a few take it on its not too bad (I run a forum as well as helping with the CX wiki). I would start one up, but I am just too new to machining and really on the bottom of the ladder here with smarts regarding machining.

 

[Terrywerm]

Not trying to be a party-pooper here but, running those Wikis and related software is never as easy as you might think. BTDT! You eventually get into access permission problems, formatting problems, style problems -the list goes on.

I really thing a few good posts here possibly linked to an article is an effective means of disseminating information. The tools are here and already exist.


Ray

I agree with Ray. I cannot imagine the bickering that would occur if one person's wiki info got edited by someone else who was thought to be less knowledgeable, or was edited by someone that the first poster simply did not like. Many machine operations can be handled in more than one way, and various people have their own opinions on what method works best. Once you introduce opinions into something that can be freely edited by people with other opinions the seeds of war are planted, and we don't need any such wars starting on this site. The idea behind a wiki is great, but I can easily see and understand the problems that exist with one also.

 

[Ray C]

Part II (Some common home-shop non-alloy metals and considerations):

As for non-alloy and alloy metals, one thing is very important. It makes almost no difference what you use if you don't plan to heat treat them. Stark as that may seem, it's true. All carbon metals (even the alloys such as 4140 etc) in the annealed state have typical tensile strength of about 55,000 to 65,000 psi. This a slight over-simplification to make a point but, it's not far from being dead true. Among all the kinds of steel you're likely to encounter, the biggest differences will be related to cosmetic surface finish. It makes no difference if you're using hard-rolled, cold-rolled, turned-ground-polished... Once you machine past the outer layer, it's all pretty much the same for any given series of metal. If you don't fully normalize the metal first, you'll encounter the effects of built-up internal and surface tensions and, when you go to heat treat it later on, you'll suffer more warping or cracking.

If you're planning on working on pre-hardened metals, there is much to learn -and it's the topic of a different question.

What we're talking about here is the transition from playing games with machines vs. entering the world of "Advanced home-shop considerations".

Non Alloys:

Most common in the home-shop is 10xx, 11xx, 12xx and possibly 15xx (I'm not aware of a 13xx or 14xx). Again, as xx increases, so does the carbon content and thus, it can be hardened to greater levels. Along with that comes varying degrees of increased tensile strength but, it might not be a linear increase as the numbers increase. For low carbon metals, only case hardening is possible and that does not significantly increase it's strength at all. As carbon content increases, you can get smoother and glossier finishes.

10xx is the standard non-resulfurized steel. Mild steel is 1018 or 1020 (good for simple things like holding fixtures, simple shafts etc). Mid steel is 1040, 1045 (good for tool holders and things that need just a bit more than scratch resistance). High carbon is 1090, 1095 (good for knife blades when moderately hardened and good for springs when critically hardened).

11xx is resulfurized steel. Sulfur makes it easier to machine and cut smoothly but other wise has the same applications as 10xx.

12xx is phophorized and/or resulfurized. Same as the 11xx but more so.

15xx is the same as 10xx but with more manganese which allows deep penetration of heat treating.

In almost all cases, you can find a metal with the letter "L" such as 11L17 which means Lead has been added. You should never weld this due to inhalation considerations. The lead gives it a smoother finish.

All of these metals have a low to only moderate tolerance to being re-heated once they've been heat treated. This means, they can lose their heat-treated properties if heated much beyond 400 degrees or so (roughly).

Also, there are many metals that are very close to on another for example, there is 1012, 1013, 1014, etc... The differences are very slight for all practical considerations. Metals like that are usually used for very specific purposes which are likely due to economic reasons moreso than structural strength reasons.


TBC...

Ray

 

[richl]

Nice addition higgite, I checked online metals and Shapiro metals to see what they offer. Each offers some information but online metals looks a tad more useful.
I would offer links but I fear banishment for linking to other sites ;-)

Rich