Is an old domestic lathe worth the same as a new import lathe?

I wrestled with this same question and I guess we all do in the beginning. For a newbie to machinery I suggest buying new from a reputable seller, like Grizzly or Precision Matthews. This takes a lot, if not (should be) most, of the worry of getting something of questionable condition, plus you get a warranty. Unless you know what to look for, or have someone that does, you can easily buy something better suited to keeping a boat moored. Some sellers will slap a new coat of paint or clean up the machine to look well taken care of and it's easy, especially for the newbie, to get worked into a frenzy thinking you're getting a deal.
 
Splat said:
I wrestled with this same question and I guess we all do in the beginning. For a newbie to machinery I suggest buying new from a reputable seller, like Grizzly or Precision Matthews. This takes a lot, if not (should be) most, of the worry of getting something of questionable condition, plus you get a warranty. Unless you know what to look for, or have someone that does, you can easily buy something better suited to keeping a boat moored. Some sellers will slap a new coat of paint or clean up the machine to look well taken care of and it's easy, especially for the newbie, to get worked into a frenzy thinking you're getting a deal.
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I never even considered an old machine. For many reasons actually, but I won't discuss them here on the forums. The lathe I have now, (PM1340GT) is every bit as good as any similar sized/capacity lathe from a half century ago . And it was brand new and came with a warranty.

Not picking on old iron, I'm just saying that some of us are not interested in it is all. :D
 
Splat said:
I wrestled with this same question and I guess we all do in the beginning. For a newbie to machinery I suggest buying new from a reputable seller, like Grizzly or Precision Matthews. This takes a lot, if not (should be) most, of the worry of getting something of questionable condition, plus you get a warranty. Unless you know what to look for, or have someone that does, you can easily buy something better suited to keeping a boat moored. Some sellers will slap a new coat of paint or clean up the machine to look well taken care of and it's easy, especially for the newbie, to get worked into a frenzy thinking you're getting a deal.
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Tooling and parts are another issue. With an in production machine finding that add on piece or replacement part is as simple as going to the company website and ordering it. Depending on the age, brand and relative popularity of an older machine that does not always seem to be the case. It seems like there are a fair number of posts related to people trying to find bits and bobs for their older machines.

A skilled machinist can probably work around most of those issues and make many of the needed parts they can't find. Not all of us are skilled machinists... some of us are still working towards trained monkey status and need all the advantages we can get. :)
 
I have had nothing but bad experiences with China & Taiwan made machines! A company I do some work for purchased a Grizzly lathe for me and in short order it went south on me. They replaced Grizzly with a Bolton made lathe. In less than a year the belt tensioner bearing went bad and when I called Bolton, they told me I can get the part in 2 to 3 months. The part had to come from China. I replaced the Bolton with a Logan 1255V made in 1968. Yes it required some cleanup and adjustments.
I have had the Logan for almost a year now and NO problems! Yes I did replace the 3 phase one horsepower motor with a new 2 horsepower single phase 220 volt motor.

Buy American, The job you save, May be your own!
 
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I went through this same issue. As a newbie with no experience to guide me I was nervous about what to buy. And money was a big issue. The first thing that I did was figure out what I wanted to be able to do. If you want to be able to turn something that is say 28 inches long it would be a waste of time and money buy a lathe that can't do what you want to do. This is the very first decision that you have to make. Next is how much can you spend. By asking for advise on what to buy you probably don't have money to burn. The answer to these two questions will guide you from this point forward.
Because I couldn't afford a brand new lathe in the size that I wanted I had to look at used equipment. I did lots and lots of research. My ideal lathe would have been a South Bend heavy 10 with at least a 30 inch center distance. I never found one at a price that I could afford. As to how to determine whether a lathe was a piece of junk boat anchor or worth buying I figured that a lathe being retired out of service from a machine shop was probably worn out. A lathe coming out of a school might be ok because it was never used all day long 6 days a week. The most likely least worn lathe would be from someone's garage shop used in their hobby. These parameters guided me in my search. I searched for well over a year.
I ultimately found what I was looking for only a couple of miles from my home. I paid way more than my budget because the lathe came with every possible attachment except for a taper attachment, multiple chucks and tooling and other assorted bits and pieces. I am the 3rd owner. The original owner used it in his hobby to repair and restore some kind of one cylinder pump engine. The second owner never used it. I really don't know why he bought it. He was into old cars and 4x4's. The lathe sat in his garage for several years collecting dust. Although the lathe was dirty and covered with oil soaked grime it appeared to be in excellent condition.
I was also looking for a mill/drill. Bought one from an estate where the deceased had purchased it new and then suffered medical issues. It had never been used and had sat first in his garage and then in storage for over 10, maybe 15 years. It did not come with any tooling except for a Walther 15" rotary table. A local machine shop snapped up the Walther as soon as I put it up for sale.
In a nutshell figure out what you want, what you can spend and then take your time looking. If you are patient you will find what you want at a price you can afford.
 
I'd love to buy American. I think most of us Americans here would agree. However, that's not always feasible or within monetary means. I just went thru this with my cousin. Unbeknownst to me he was looking at an old Heavy 10. First timer, at the mercy of the seller, and he thought he was getting a great deal. Nope. He got taken. $1.5K later and now he's asking me what to do. The old American machines by now are pretty beat up. How tight are your desired tolerances? They won't be that tight with most of these machines and they'll probably need a good cleanup, if not parts swap outs, to get them up and running.
 
I keep hearing about the lack of good American machinery on the market, and frankly don't believe it to be true. As mentioned in earlier posts there are areas of the country where there is less than others, but again I find it hard to believe there is nothing worth buying on the market. There will always be con artists and scammers willing to sell a bag of magic beans. It's up to the buyer to be sure they are getting what they pay for. If you don't have the expertise to know whether a machine is worth the asking price it's up to you to find someone with the expertise to help you.

It's no different than buying a car. There's a scam artist on every corner willing to sell you grandmas Cadillac that was only driven to church on Sundays. If you're willing to accept that at face value you're going to get an education. If you're not careful that education could be very expensive.

It takes time and perseverance to winnow out the good from the bad. There are plenty of good used American machines on the market. Earlier this year I had a local shop owner offer me a Black Diamond drill grinder built in 1974 that looked like it was all but new in the box. He had bought it as part of a lot at a government auction 5 years ago. After taking up space and never being used for 5 years he offered it to me at less than 1/20 the price it sold for new. This machine is so pristine it looks as though it had never been run for more than demonstration purposes.

Quality American machines are out there. You just have to be willing to put forth more effort than browsing through a catalog to find them. Of the over 20 old American machines in my shop I would bet every one of them could be put in a production shop and run for years with only standard maintenance and replacement of minor wear parts.
 
Easier said than done for a lot of folks. Not everyone has someone they can take with them to look at a machine. I'm in the tri-state NY area so you'd think there'd be plenty of good American machines around. Yes, but they're usually asking TOP dollar for them without accessories.
 
I think Splat has it right: it's easier said than done.
In my area, decent lathes are thin on the ground, and of course it isn't good enough to just find a decent machine, it has to be the right
machine at the right price. The older Logans, South Bends etc. are getting pretty darn old (mine is 74 years old), and the newer
machines (Clausings, for example) with hardened ways are for the most part still in machine shops. projectnut, your example of the Black
Diamond grinder is a great story, but it's like the Rolls Royce in the barn: everyone wants one, but in reality there are very few
out there and most of us could spend our entire lives and never find a deal like that. It certainly isn't typical. More typical in my area
is worn out junk with no tooling, or increasingly, large machines that are too big for most hobbyists, (with
no tooling). Once in a while, a nice looking machine pops up (with no tooling) which the sellers believe is made from gold. (Like the local guy
selling a Heavy 10 for $7500.00.) As good machines become more scarce, the prices will go up further. And, while some folks don't mind
spending months, if not years finding the right machine, and have the skill and knowledge to evaluate and repair them when they find them,
it's tough attracting new people to the hobby with these kinds of barriers to entry.
 
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