I found a VN12

[Shopsweeper]

It turns out that a VN12 followed me home today.

1phase, R8, low motor. May be an ex-Navy machine.
Here are two pics that the PO took.



More news later. Right now I am too tired from loading, hauling and cleaning. More details in the days ahead.

 

[alandarkdale]

PO = previous owner. Gee, I teach middle school and PO means Parole Officer.

 

[OakRidgeGuy]

PO = http://www.acronymfinder.com/PO.html

I noticed that it also list Police Officer.. but in todays world.. that is POPO!

 

[8ntsane]

Nice find

Seems those VN#12s are turning up all over the place.
You mention R-8, I was under the impression they all were 5V collets.
But I could be wrong about that.:thinking:

Enjoy your new toy:drink2:

 

[Shopsweeper]

They are most* all C (or 5V in Common use). At some point my mill visited Burd Machenery Rebuilders in Toledo, OH. Either Burd or a Previous Owner must have converted her.

*I have herd tell that 16s, 22s an 38s were often MADE with other sized spindles. But one does not hear this of 12s much.

 

[jumps4]

nice find, it's looks ready to use by the swarf piles. they are pretty glistening in the shop lights
looks like you got some tooling also
keep us posted
steve

 

[Shopsweeper]

Bad news, Good news.

Bad:
My "R8" looks to be a C with a fabbed-up R8 collet bar. So much for being lucky.

Good:
The ways and the side of the Ram show clear hand-scraping marks proudly (the marks on the side of the head were hidden behind a poor coat of grey paint). Scraping ways one of the first parts of machining I ever learned about, and it put me off machine work for about 25 years. I have no desire to do it again, and no need. They are more gold than blue in the sunlight. I wish gramps where still around - he could probably have told me how that signified the different irons.

Other:
I have some C (5V) stuff somewhere. I bought a .gov lot years ago with some funny looking tooling and researched it until I found out that it was 5V and put it away. Now I need to find it.

My 12 is about 1/3 clean. I will put her indoors tonight once I am sure that she won't puddle oil on my floor. The handles are soaking in water/degreaser. The dials are in the ultrasonic cleaner with about 3 lots of bolts and misc. bits waiting.

Now I just need to figure out how to pull the spindle head for a good flush and soak. I can already tell that a day of gasket making is in my future.

 

[Cal Haines]

Bad news, Good news.

Bad:
My "R8" looks to be a C with a fabbed-up R8 collet bar. So much for being lucky.
...
Now I just need to figure out how to pull the spindle head for a good flush and soak. I can already tell that a day of gasket making is in my future.

I'm not sure I understand the part about the R8 collet bar. R8 collets have an internal drawbar thread; C collets have an external thread and use a draw-tube.

The cutter-head is held on by the 3 bolts. The easy way to pull one is to block it up on the table in some fashion and use the table to move the head away from the ram. A vertical bar held in a collet in the cutter head and clamped in the vise works great.

Inspect the drive key on the spindle that is driven by the ring gear and make sure it's not all beat up. Take the end plates off so that you can clean the old grease out of the bearings, but don't mess with the bolts that lock the ring gear in position on the spindle.

I have the manual for that machine if you need it (there are at least 3 different versions of the manual, depending on the vintage of the machine).

Cal

 

[Shopsweeper]

I'm not sure I understand the part about the R8 collet bar. R8 collets have an internal drawbar thread; C collets have an external thread and use a draw-tube.

Cal

Bad nomelclature on my part. The PO got this machine as part of a building purchase. He inherited R8 tooling with it - most of a set of collets, a (sort of) Horz bar, etc. He had an R8 in the nose when he test ran the mill for me. All of those collets in the PO's pic where R8, etc.

But it is not so. The cutter head spindle dimensions out to be C. Its just missing the "key". I can only suppose that one and maybe two POs were running this thing with R8 jammed up the nose and pulled up tight with a drawbar (included).

A clue should have been that a "draw tube" that is obviously C (5V) came with the machine. I am just not that familiar with C - I have only seen collets in person not the draw tube before this.

I have some phone pics, but they are too high-rez for me to upload. I will have to dither them down.

This mill has, for some amount of time, been running R8s in a spindle that is NOT ground out for them - the R8s sit proud and a little loosy. The 5V (C) clicks in like it was made for it.

Thanks for the Head help. I have 2 versions of that manual - one of them has drawings that match my head. But I am having issues. I have the bolts loose - but the #3 bolt (The one with a nut that sits between the cutter head and the ram) is not coming down far enough - I was thinking that the Round end of the cresent slot was to the way to take that bolt out - as the drawings have the nut (J-190?) being wide (round). - As in I was trying to lay the cutter head just beyond Horizontal to take the nut out of that hole -and even with the lower stop removed (12-524) it will not lay down any further.

What you may be saying is that I simply need to loosed them all and them pull with tremendous force. I Did not try this. I tried a good amount - but only what one human can do with no tools - I'm not wanting to damage anything. Let me know if I am reading you right and that force to the left is my friend (I have snapped more that one semi lug nut with a lug wrench
-so if you tell me force I can supply it).

Pics added now. Top pic is C in the nose.
Next Pic is R8 in the nose.
Last attached pic shows R8 bar, C tube, and a Horz bar in R8 made from an end mill holder and a threaded 1" rod?!?

 

[Cal Haines]

Bad nomelclature on my part. The PO got this machine as part of a building purchase. He inherited R8 tooling with it - most of a set of collets, a (sort of) Horz bar, etc. He had an R8 in the nose when he test ran the mill for me. All of those collets in the PO's pic where R8, etc.

But it is not so. The cutter head spindle dimensions out to be C. Its just missing the "key". I can only suppose that one and maybe two POs were running this thing with R8 jammed up the nose and pulled up tight with a drawbar (included).

A clue should have been that a "draw tube" that is obviously C (5V) came with the machine. I am just not that familiar with C - I have only seen collets in person not the draw tube before this.

...

This mill has, for some amount of time, been running R8s in a spindle that is NOT ground out for them - the R8s sit proud and a little loosy. The 5V (C) clicks in like it was made for it.

OK, that's very odd. An R8 collet has an OD of 0.95" whereas a 'C' collet has and OD of 0.85. An R8 collet won't fit in an unmodified C spindle. It sounds like someone bored out the spindle to 0.95" but left the C taper. Does that appear to be what happened?

Thanks for the Head help. I have 2 versions of that manual - one of them has drawings that match my head. But I am having issues. ...

The same basic cutter-head (with some minor differences) was used on later machines, but your ram gearbox has ball bearings. Later models used tapered roller bearings. Here's page 12 of the manual that you need (I have the whole manual in a PDF):

... I have the bolts loose - but the #3 bolt (The one with a nut that sits between the cutter head and the ram) is not coming down far enough - I was thinking that the Round end of the cresent slot was to the way to take that bolt out - as the drawings have the nut (J-190?) being wide (round). - As in I was trying to lay the cutter head just beyond Horizontal to take the nut out of that hole -and even with the lower stop removed (12-524) it will not lay down any further.

What you may be saying is that I simply need to loosed them all and them pull with tremendous force. I Did not try this. I tried a good amount - but only what one human can do with no tools - I'm not wanting to damage anything. Let me know if I am reading you right and that force to the left is my friend (I have snapped more that one semi lug nut with a lug wrench
-so if you tell me force I can supply it).
...

OK. I can see from your photos that the cutter-head is free to rotate, so it's not glued to the ram, that's good. It also sounds like you are able to loosen all 3 nuts. I misspoke when I called them bolts, above. The two in front are long tube nuts, the one in back is a standard nut but (at least on my No. 16) it has an odd size; IIRC, I had to use a metric wrench on mine. The nuts engage T-bolts that run in the arc-shaped slots. You can't get the T-bolts out of their slots without removing the cutter-head. You should be able to remove the front tube-bolts. There should be a spring and washer behind the tube-bolt; be careful not to loose the washers. As you back out the rear nut it will bind against the cutter-head. At that point it's time to separate the cutter-head from the ram, as discussed above. The cutter-head pivots on the outer race of the left bearing for the gearbox output shaft (the bearing is pressed into the ram so that part of the outer race stands proud of the machined face of the ram by 1/4" or so). The cutter-head is a close fit to the bearing race, so you have to be careful not to bind it during removal, hence the need to support the cutter-head as discussed previously. If you were horsing on the cutter-head trying to pull it off you probably twisted it and it’s binding on the bearing race. Make sure the head is free to rotate before you try removing it; pull it back down against the ram with the binder nuts if necessary. A few light taps with a dead blow hammer may be needed to encourage the head to move as you traverse the table to draw the cutter-head off of the bearing race, but it should be fairly effortless and extreme force IS NOT required. You will need to back of the rear nut from time to time as you pull the head.

Cal