Gunsmithing FFL

Thanks guys! :))

Bill

One other thing... When you have the sit-down with the agent/inspector, have a pen and pad of paper and take notes on the responses to your questions. Write the date on the paper and don't throw it away. In all probability, they will be writing things down and taking notes too so, it's not unusual to do this -as long as you do it in a professional and non-defensive way.

Written record of things goes a long, long way in many situations. Verbal presentations in a courtroom are all fine and well -but written notes are about as durable of a testimony you can provide short of a video/audio taped presentation.


Ray
 
To make sure I understand:

If I have a gunsmithing business, and modify a customers gun to a different caliber and charge him for it I am a manufacturer.

Bill


Not according to my ATF agent. I was asked to install a 10" barrel on a Thompson and also had another customer bring me an old Mauser to rebarrel to 9.3x62 and I called her to clarify both jobs. The Mauser was a non-issue as far as they were concerned but to do the Thompson, I had to have the customer's tax stamp in hand to install the new barrel.
 
Toolman, if that Thompson was an NFA weapon that would make sense. I don't believe it applies to anything outside that definition.

JMHO

-Ron
 
Toolman, if that Thompson was an NFA weapon that would make sense. I don't believe it applies to anything outside that definition.

JMHO

-Ron

That was the issue, the 10" barrel turned it into a SBR.
 
Here's the current requirements for an FFL to retain the acquisition and disposition records of firearms.

http://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2008-2.pdf

If you are not a manufacturer, how would you record that you took in a gun of one caliber and released it back to a customer as another?


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The A&D books that I use have a box for notes that I use to list what I did to that particular gun. It really makes no difference though, the receiver is considered to be the weapon, not the barrel. You can buy a Savage 110 and have barrels and bolts to convert it to 50 different calibers but to the ATF, the serial number on the receiver is the only thing that matters.
 
The A&D books that I use have a box for notes that I use to list what I did to that particular gun. It really makes no difference though, the receiver is considered to be the weapon, not the barrel. You can buy a Savage 110 and have barrels and bolts to convert it to 50 different calibers but to the ATF, the serial number on the receiver is the only thing that matters.

Exactly - but with one exception I have been informed of in the past. If mods or alterations are made to the receiver to accomplish a caliber change, they told me they would like to know about that also [for future identification purposes?] This is just info I have been given, and I would follow by making notes in the AD Log if necessary.
 
If you replace any parts whether it's a stock sights or anything any alterations what so ever you need a manufacturers license. From research that I've done about the only thing you can legally do is clean one for somebody without a manufacturers license.
And if you take a gun in to do any type of work it must be entered into your permanent record book and you have to run the background check and your customer needs to fill out the purchasers form what that is called can't remember the number or name of it but you know what I'm talking about.
 
If you replace any parts whether it's a stock sights or anything any alterations what so ever you need a manufacturers license. From research that I've done about the only thing you can legally do is clean one for somebody without a manufacturers license.
And if you take a gun in to do any type of work it must be entered into your permanent record book and you have to run the background check and your customer needs to fill out the purchasers form what that is called can't remember the number or name of it but you know what I'm talking about.

Sorry, but no. Anyone can work on anyone else's gun without a license of any kind, as long as they don't do it for profit. If you DO work for profit, you need a basic type-01 FFL or dealer's license. If you are operating as a pawnbroker, you need an 02. If you are collecting curios and relics, it's an 03. You don't need an 07 (manufacturers license) unless you are actually building guns for resale.

As a gunsmith, I can even sell a customer all of the parts to build an AR-15 and then assemble all of the parts without a manufacturer's license, BUT, I can't buy all of the parts, assemble them, and THEN sell the completed weapon.

If just doing gunsmithing, you only have to log the customer's info in if you are keeping the gun overnight. I can go to the local gun range and work on guns there all day long, or I can fix a gun and return it during business hours or before I leave at night, without logging anything into my A&D book unless I keep it overnight, then it has to be logged into the A&D book and then logged out when it is picked up. If it is picked up by anyone other than the person who dropped it off, a 4473 (NICS form) has to be filled out by the person picking it up. In my mind, this is a very touchy area because the form asks if the person applying is the person actually "buying" the firearm (I don't remember the actual wording, all of my forms are at the shop), but it is there to prevent the whole "strawman" situation. I haven't talked to my ATF agent about it, but I have several customers who work out of town and a couple of them have dropped off guns and wanted their wives/girlfriends/brothers/etc. to pick up the gun. In the interest of covering my butt, I just tell them that they need to come get it when they get home.

FWIW, I have even installed a 10" barrel on an Auto Ordnance '27 Thompson replica , which makes it a SBR. I did not need a manufacturer's license to install the barrel, I just needed my 01 FFL and a copy of the customer's tax stamp in hand to perform the work. In the ATF's eyes, all I did was swap a barrel. FWIW, if you ever have to remove a Thompson barrel, you dang well better have the right equipment or you will regret it...:whiteflag:
 
I'm not renewing my license. Not to get political, but I don't have a warm a fuzzy about how things are going. Let me put it this way, I never had an ATF agent visit my place and inspect my books until 2009, and ironically, I got a call that they wanted to inspect again just last week. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not.
 
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