Gearing up for PM-833TV

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skcncx

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Been planning on it but I finally separated my $$ from my wallet for the 833 TV bench top mill. Pickup in a few weeks.

I've read many threads on setup for tram, nod, tilt and generally dialing it in... hopefully I can get going pretty quickly out of the box and dial the mill in as I learn this craft. Mostly will be milling aluminum.

As of now here's my get started stuff... let me know if I'm missed anything obvious or a nice to have accessory.
  • DRO w/Mag scales
    • Aikron A30 (have this DRO for my lathe.. once it arrives)
    • Not sure if 4th axis for Z summing the quill and column travel necessary or just superfluous.

  • Royal R8 holders
  • 5" Vise- seems to be a good size, though I see many like a 4" and even the 6" is doable on this mill.
    • Leaning toward the Shars 550V CNC or the PM Homge 5"
    • Glacern and Kurt maybe, seems like you have more jaw and accessory options... though, price is much higher.

  • Small stuff
    • 1/4 and 1/2 end mills for aluminum
    • 2.5" indexable face mill (may look at other options)
    • Edge/Center finder
    • Keyless chuck
    • Parallels
    • Maybe the EdgeTechnologies tram thing, or just their indicator holder... they seem to have some nice accessories, vise stops,

  • Already have a few dial indicators, calipers, magnetic base arm holder from shars...


  • Future, collet blocks and rotary table.. whatever tooling comes out of a project need.
    • Collet blocks, nut sure what kind, 5C, ER40... whatever is common and the most flexible.

*affordable = that's an oxymoron in machine tooling I have found.
 
I got my 833TV a couple of years ago now and went through the same process. It looks like you have a good sense what to buy to get started. Some solution for a quill DRO is really, really helpful maybe combined with a better quill stop (I have a separate Mitutoyo but an additional DRO scale would work if you can figure out a way to mount it and run the cable) . On the vises I went with a S&D Kurt 6" which is somewhat big. Knowing now that you continue to spend a lot of money on "small" stuff I would probably go with the PM Homge (which was OOS when i started) and save the money for other things.

On the small stuff, I would leave out the ET tram thing. I have it and it is nice but you can definitely do the same with a dial indicator and a mag base. The PM high precision drill chucks are excellent value for money. On endmills I went HSS first following the general advise but it was a true revelation to upgrade to carbide (lakeshore carbide is great but I got high quality on sale from carbide cutting tools as well). Don't plan to wait for too long. I have a Glacern face mill that looks very impressive but use a fly cutter much more often (I have the Tormach superfly). If I had to do it again I would wait on the face mill for a bit and have a good look at the Haas 2" shell mill if I decided to buy one (HRNP or HS6NP -- there are several threads on these). More useful was an indexable 1-1.5" endmill. Again, Haas has a few but I went with a used Iscar HM90 E90A instead (the APKT inserts are plentiful on ebay as well) and saved a few bucks.

Overall, buy based on what you need for upcoming projects once you have covered the essentials to hold things down and some cutting tools to make chips. David Best put together a list of tools to get started which I would regard as a great start for a wishlist.
 
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j-becker said:
Some solution for a quill DRO is really, really helpful maybe combined with a better quill stop
Click to expand...
Good confirmation! I'm ordering the DRO from Aikron and getting with 4 axis to leave me the option to have the Z axis summed between
quill and column movement.

j-becker said:
I would probably go with the PM Homge (which was OOS when i started) and save the money for other things.
Click to expand...
I'll probably lean toward the Shars 550V, it's about $75 cheaper than the Homge... aka, save $ for a nicer vise if I need to later on.

j-becker said:
If I had to do it again I would wait on the face mill for a bit and have a good look at the Haas 2" shell mill if I decided to buy one (HRNP or HS6NP -- there are several threads on these).
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Yes, that's the plan. I'll likely go with the Hass HOP version which is the 45 degree cutter, a little less stress force needed, but the HRNP allows you to cut a shoulder. I plan to use it with light cuts and with the Royal R8 EasyChange setup initially, though, may revert to standard R8 holder since it's starting to max out the EasyChange capabilities. I've read David's face mill doc and general getting started machine tooling docs... that's a big influence on my starter stuff. His several guides and DM have been super helpful to navigate all the options for the uninitiated.

j-becker said:
More useful was an indexable 1-1.5" endmill.
Click to expand...
I've seen those, I'll have to take another look. I was planning on 1/4" and 1/2" end mills and will certainly invest in higher quality carbide once I get the feel for just doing some practice cuts and projects.

j-becker said:
The PM high precision drill chucks are excellent value for money.
Click to expand...
That was the plan, I purchased their Ultra Precision chuck for my lathe with the MT3 shank... though, for the mill, they don't sell their chucks with just a Jacobs taper, and I need a chuck for the EasyChange system.... so I'll have to go another route... likely a Vertex chuck, good value for the cost as I understand it.
 
skcncx said:
Good confirmation! I'm ordering the DRO from Aikron and getting with 4 axis to leave me the option to have the Z axis summed between
quill and column movement.


I'll probably lean toward the Shars 550V, it's about $75 cheaper than the Homge... aka, save $ for a nicer vise if I need to later on.


Yes, that's the plan. I'll likely go with the Hass HOP version which is the 45 degree cutter, a little less stress force needed, but the HRNP allows you to cut a shoulder. I plan to use it with light cuts and with the Royal R8 EasyChange setup initially, though, may revert to standard R8 holder since it's starting to max out the EasyChange capabilities. I've read David's face mill doc and general getting started machine tooling docs... that's a big influence on my starter stuff. His several guides and DM have been super helpful to navigate all the options for the uninitiated.


I've seen those, I'll have to take another look. I was planning on 1/4" and 1/2" end mills and will certainly invest in higher quality carbide once I get the feel for just doing some practice cuts and projects.


That was the plan, I purchased their Ultra Precision chuck for my lathe with the MT3 shank... though, for the mill, they don't sell their chucks with just a Jacobs taper, and I need a chuck for the EasyChange system.... so I'll have to go another route... likely a Vertex chuck, good value for the cost as I understand it.
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I am not following here, i have looked into the "Easy Change" as well, the R8 chuck is used, they make JT adapters to fit the R8 chuck you put in the spindle.
 
IamNotImportant said:
I am not following here, i have looked into the "Easy Change" as well, the R8 chuck is used, they make JT adapters to fit the R8 chuck you put in the spindle.
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Correct, I think I stated it poorly, in a confusing manner. Royal/EasyChange R8 system has chuck adapters holders for J2, J3, J6 and J33 jacob taper chucks. I was just saying I cannot purchase the drill chuck from PM, because their drill chucks have an integral R8 shank. For the EasyChanage, you need a chuck with compatible jacobs taper only and no shank so you can mate the chuck directly with one of their drill chuck holders.

Otherwise, if you have a chuck with an R8 shank, you are back to removing the EasyChange R8 master holder and just installing your chuck directly to the R8 spindle drawbar andn all.
 
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My apologies, I did not quite pick up that you want to go straight away with the Royal Easy Change system. You are right that the PM chucks are not compatible due to the integrated chucks. I have not migrated to a quick change system yet and use a mixture of R8 shank tooling, R8 collets and ER tool holders at the moment. I am sure the easy change system is very convenient but it wasn't my primary pain point to spend money on so far. But if you anticipate a lot of drilling & tapping for example that require a lot of tool changes than this would make sense. An alternative to a Vertex keyless chuck may be to look for a used Albrecht in good condition.
 
j-becker said:
My apologies, I did not quite pick up that you want to go straight away with the Royal Easy Change system. You are right that the PM chucks are not compatible due to the integrated chucks. I have not migrated to a quick change system yet and use a mixture of R8 shank tooling, R8 collets and ER tool holders at the moment. I am sure the easy change system is very convenient but it wasn't my primary pain point to spend money on so far. But if you anticipate a lot of drilling & tapping for example that require a lot of tool changes than this would make sense. An alternative to a Vertex keyless chuck may be to look for a used Albrecht in good condition.
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No apologies needed. I was actually hoping I could get PM's chuck. I ended up ordering these vertex keyed and keyless chucks from rotagriponline.com. Vertex (Taiwan), Rohm and PM's Taiwan chucks all seem to strike the good value proposition in my observation.

I'm speculating a mill w/o some type of easy tooling change system to be frustrating and less enjoyable. I'm placing a high value on that convenience. Same with DRO... ironically, power feeds is much lower to me... gonna defer that until I get tired of cranking the hand wheels.

I initially figured a power draw bar was in the mix or my only option. I was lamenting installing it and ultimately another connection to the machine for air supply... etc. All I can say is that's my reasoning, good or bad.

The Royal EasyChange system seems like a no brainer... *if you can get it at a reasonable cost*. There's no modification needed on your mill. If you don't use it and or need to swap out to a standard R8 for a given tool its on and off quickly using the standard R8 draw bar procedure. That'll be what I do for the times I used a tool that isn't inside the boundaries of this system. I'm speculating that's 10% or less of my tool changes.

For comparison, a PDB for the 833TV mill from Priest Tools is $979. My EasyChange tooling order with Rotagriponline.com was $1,050 USD (shipped). That includes the master holder, J6 chuck holder, J3 chuck holder, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, ER32 holders, 3/4" stub face/shell mill holder and a set of parallels. Sourced locally, JUST the master holder is $900+... I don't get the price disparity if you order from the UK or stateside.

As you add more tooling and if you don't want to keep swapping cutters/tools in and out of your holders you do need to keep buying more holders. I would anticipate getting 3-5 more holders, so add a few hundred to my initial purchase. So, in the long run, PDB is cheaper... but I really like the idea of no extra componentry/air and safety electronics on the mill.

I'll just be excited to start actually milling/turning stuff with my new PM equipment... been in the research/buying phase lately.
 
skcncx said:
No apologies needed. I was actually hoping I could get PM's chuck. I ended up ordering these vertex keyed and keyless chucks from rotagriponline.com. Vertex (Taiwan), Rohm and PM's Taiwan chucks all seem to strike the good value proposition in my observation.

I'm speculating a mill w/o some type of easy tooling change system to be frustrating and less enjoyable. I'm placing a high value on that convenience. Same with DRO... ironically, power feeds is much lower to me... gonna defer that until I get tired of cranking the hand wheels.

I initially figured a power draw bar was in the mix or my only option. I was lamenting installing it and ultimately another connection to the machine for air supply... etc. All I can say is that's my reasoning, good or bad.

The Royal EasyChange system seems like a no brainer... *if you can get it at a reasonable cost*. There's no modification needed on your mill. If you don't use it and or need to swap out to a standard R8 for a given tool its on and off quickly using the standard R8 draw bar procedure. That'll be what I do for the times I used a tool that isn't inside the boundaries of this system. I'm speculating that's 10% or less of my tool changes.

For comparison, a PDB for the 833TV mill from Priest Tools is $979. My EasyChange tooling order with Rotagriponline.com was $1,050 USD (shipped). That includes the master holder, J6 chuck holder, J3 chuck holder, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, ER32 holders, 3/4" stub face/shell mill holder and a set of parallels. Sourced locally, JUST the master holder is $900+... I don't get the price disparity if you order from the UK or stateside.

As you add more tooling and if you don't want to keep swapping cutters/tools in and out of your holders you do need to keep buying more holders. I would anticipate getting 3-5 more holders, so add a few hundred to my initial purchase. So, in the long run, PDB is cheaper... but I really like the idea of no extra componentry/air and safety electronics on the mill.

I'll just be excited to start actually milling/turning stuff with my new PM equipment... been in the research/buying phase lately.
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i have a used 833tv, two things i need to do, well three really. One, fix the X axis glass scale, it is covering the drain holes on the back side of the mill table. Two, i have limited Z headroom and plus I was going to order the Z axis motor, but i see that it is out of stock, the last time i talked to a person at PM, they related that "out of stock" really meant that they were not going to continue providing that item. This is what driving my desire to use the Easy Change system and i think will for a lot of my milling operations.
 
IamNotImportant said:
I was going to order the Z axis motor, but i see that it is out of stock, the last time i talked to a person at PM, they related that "out of stock" really meant that they were not going to continue providing that item.
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That would have been my first power feed. I was glad it wasn't in stock... no dilemma if I should buy it now or not... I can't buy it :). Though, I talked to PM just yesterday asking when that would be back in stock. They indicated Jan-Feb 2023... I was not told it's being phased out. In stock of course baring any delays.

IamNotImportant said:
Two, i have limited Z headroom and plus I was going to order the Z axis motor,
Click to expand...
Interesting, a big reason for me to jump from the 728VT to the 833TV for me was the extra few inches of z height... max spindle to table if that's what you mean by Z headroom.
 
skcncx said:
That would have been my first power feed. I was glad it wasn't in stock... no dilemma if I should buy it now or not... I can't buy it :). Though, I talked to PM just yesterday asking when that would be back in stock. They indicated Jan-Feb 2023... I was not told it's being phased out. In stock of course baring any delays.


Interesting, a big reason for me to jump from the 728VT to the 833TV for me was the extra few inches of z height... max spindle to table if that's what you mean by Z headroom.
Click to expand...
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