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Fagor Innova Dro Failures and Errors Needs TLC?

Discussion in 'METROLOGY - MEASURE, SETUP & FIT' started by gapi, Sep 4, 2014.

  1. I have the pleasure of giving TLC to a Bridgeport that has been rode hard and put up wet.

    Hygiene and love have not been a priority. When trying to use the Dro the Y axis is OK but the X either will not respond or if it does as soon as you move the table it errors.

    Can I get some tips on what to do troubleshooting wise?

    Thanks

    BridgePortDigital_zps026a1ceb.jpg
     

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  2. darkzero

    darkzero Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Do they give false readings or does the display actually display an error message? If they are glass scales which I assume your Fagor has this is a common problem. Although it doesn't happen very often as in periodically many people do run into this. Most of the time it's cause by dirty scales.

    You use a cotton swap & denatured alcohol (isopropyl will work too, higher the % the better) to swap the glass scales clean bh reaching through the seals. Try not to blow air as it may damage the read head if there's a lot of chips inside & will only blow oils/coolant around. Some scales can be disassembled if they are real dirty & you need to clean the read head too.
     
  3. Thanks,

    I have never removed a scale so I'll be in uncharted territory and am glad I asked before guessing. I may have just used an air hose. I hope it just needs cleaning.
     
  4. Sorry, I didn't answer your question.

    Reset it to zero and as soon as you move it either freezes or blinks.

    I looked for Google videos of servicing scales. I wonder what Fagor or a Fagor service center would charger to do the service? Any recommendations? We are not the original purchaser.
     
  5. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

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    Normally you don't need to remove the scale. Just pull the cover off and you should be able to access the glass.
     
  6. Thanks, I work evenings and I'll try and give it a look tonight.
     
  7. OK,

    I have to apologize because I got my scale issues mixed up. The one I said was not responding or error alarming was for the one on the Victor 1640 I am also trying to revive.

    So lets begin again.......... This one just did not respond.

    I pulled the scale off the Bridgeport X axis and as soon as I began to do so I knew it was going to be bad. Some one has let the table over travel and smashed her up.
    The scale is at least 36-inched long. I sat the thing centered on top of the table and could tell they failed to set the auto and hard travel stops so the scale would survive.

    As soon as I tried to back out the mounting screw and seen it was elliptical in behavior I lost my hopes of this just being a cleanup.
    It pulled the wireds out of the sensor!

    Here is the pic. The screws on both ends looked the same. I didn't get the other one in the pic.

    What can I pick up a scale for. Are there refurbs? Thanks

    brokenscale_zps2b021c01.jpg
     

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  8. darkzero

    darkzero Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Holy crap! Never heard of refurbished scales & it may not be worth sending to Fagor for repair if they did offer the service. Where the wires got ripped off, is it covered with epoxy? Any possibility in soldering the wires back?

    If not, what kind of connector does your scale have? The most common is the D-Sub 9 (looks like a VGA connector). You could buy a replacement, doesn't have to be Fagor as I'm assuming a Fagor scale is pretty expensive.

    Best bet is to contact DROPros to get a replacement scale. They sell Fagors so they should know exactly what will work for a replacement. An Easson scale scale should work. To prevent future crashes, your scales should be an inch or 2 (travel not OAL) longer then the max travel of your axis. It would be best to get the correct size scale now that you have to get a replacement. Ask them about this & they should be able to take care of you. They are located in the US & their customer service is excellent.

    If you're on a budget, you can order a replacement scale cheaper from China but you will pretty much have to do all the research yourself in what scale & size to get that is compatible.
     
  9. Thanks,

    I was just wondering about refurbs. You never know eh?

    I have visited DroPros. Looks like a good vendor.
    On the other end of the spectrum I stumbled into CDCO Machinery Corp. Everything there is frighteningly cheap.

    We will have to see how enthused I can get the boss.
    They kind of let the shop go to waste (former CEO slaughtered the place) and I have already demonstrated the value added by making repairs fopr them using the shop as is.

    It looks like to get a longer scale I'll have to drill and tap holes in the table. How hard is the metal?

    Meanwhile for all my DRO "must have" needs, I use the below SuperMax that has a working DRO but no auto x axis.
    The DRO is an OLD Futuba and the readout is dim but it works. I see there is a Ground terminal at the rear unused. Do you think this may be why the display is so dim?


    SuperMaxMill_zpsd9527d7a.jpg

    futabarear_zps7bc69b00.jpg
     

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  10. darkzero

    darkzero Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Good luck with that Frank dude at CDCO, I will never purchase something from him again. Many have good experiences but many others have not also, do a search on the net or even just here.

    Yup that scale looks way too short. Wonder if that's the same Futaba that manufactuers RC controllers? I doubt the ground screw on the display is the cause for a dim display. I would think that given the age that it would still use LED displays but if it is really old it could be vacuum flourescent display, those get dim as they age. Not sure if they were used in DRO displays back then though.
     
  11. I hear you.

    I was just tossing them out there. I go by the "If its too good to be true" its most likely not.

    I'll be back
     
  12. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

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    Yeah, that pretty well finished. Time for some new scales. +1 what darkzero said, depending on budget, there are a lot of options available.

    EDIT:

    The table is a good grade of cast iron, so it's pretty soft. Drills and taps very well, be careful tapping, it can be a bit grabby on small taps. Use a dark cutting oil, normally available at the big box stores as well as you local industrial/plumbing supply.

    I don't think the ground is causing the dim display, probably just getting tired.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2014
  13. Thanks, Well upon further review in looking at the possible mounting points of interest it looks like some poor soul decided to mount a scale smaller than the previous one.
    Have a look.
    I put the end cap of the ruined scale where it was for effect.


    scaleforensics_zps458f9d58.jpg
     

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  14. Thanks Guys,

    Well, the Bridge Port Fagor thing is out as the scales are very expensive and cross compatibility is vague so my boss will not roll those dice. We are looking a a new setup from Dro Pros for around $600.00.

    We have a Victor 1640 lathe with a Futaba Pulscale DRO system with issues. The X axis is fine and the Y axis was really full of debris and had been for a while. It tossed errors for most of the travel at the same place reliably, I would say 75% of the travel would error.
    Not only the above but they has the axis's reversed, and I swapped cables.

    I pulled it apart and we have aerosol alcohol so I wet it down good and Q-Tipped her and reassembled but it still was pretty bad.

    I could see a rub on the glass and the glass over the reader pickup. With nothing to loose I buffed them firmly with lens paper and managed to salvage it all but for a 3/4" section of travel about 3/4" inboard from the center. I call it a significant save because tool post arrangement can be manipulated to avoid the spot 99% of the time. We almost never need to face off wide travel items.

    Yeh, the rub is in the most traveled space I guess.

    The Futaba Display,

    VictorDigital_zpsd1bba40c.jpg
     

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    Skyking252 likes this.
  15. fastback

    fastback United States Active User Active Member

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    When you get the new DRO from DRO-PROS you will note that the alignment of the scale and reader is critical. If they are not installed right the scale can be destroyed in no time. Just make sure you carefully follow the directions that they provide. I have one of DRO-PROS glass scale set ups on my BP and have been very happy with the unit.

    I remember needing to call them with question. They were very good at getting back to me right away with the information I needed.

    Good luck

    Paul
     
  16. Thanks.
     
  17. Skyking252

    Skyking252 United States Swarf Registered Member

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    I have the same Futaba Pulscale CJ2004 DRO on my Maxmill and I'm in desperate need of an operating manual. Do you have ANY literature on this DRO that you could scan for me?
     
  18. I will look for it to night and reply.
     
  19. Sorry, I have the Fagor manual.
     
  20. You Still There?

    How about these. They are cellular cam images of a large laminated double sided card I found deep in the dark among the archives. I didn't give up.
    Its got to be the simplest instruction manual I ever seen.

    These are sized down to 1200x900 from 3264 x 2448 at about 3.20 to 3.25 MB each. If you likie, and want the full resolution versions, give me or PM an email address.

    pulscale_manual_1200_01.jpg

    pulscale_manual_1200_02.jpg
     
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  21. Skyking252

    Skyking252 United States Swarf Registered Member

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    Immense thanks for your efforts. These will be helpful, but I'm still going to need the complete manual if there's any hope of restoring the functionality of this box. I'll send a PM with my email.
     
  22. astjp2

    astjp2 United States Active User Active Member

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    Many scales will interchange if you know the resolution and signal output. If you have a 1um scale with ttl, you can buy a 1 um ttl from another manufacturer and plug n play. I bought a newall, its inductive and not glass scales. You will still pay a few hundred each for a scale but its much better than a chicom copy of a real dro. That is a decent mill worth a good DRO. Really trip your boss out and do axis summing on the Z, the quill will add and subtract along with normal Z travel.....Go to the newall or other websites and do some reading. Tim http://www.yuriystoys.com/2013/12/selecting-scales-for-dro.html
     
  23. Ken Mach

    Ken Mach Canada Iron Registered Member

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    Just wondering if you ever managed to secure a manual for your Futaba Pulsa Scale unit? I am in need on one as well.
     

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