Dividing Head – Which To Focus On?

[bcall2043]

I have adopted several dividing heads over time. None were complete! The metal illness most of us suffer from makes it an easy decision to bring another tool into our home shop but a difficult decision to get rid of them. Not having an immediate need for them I have not got around to getting one of them complete and operational. I have a lathe repair on my list of things to do that can give me that need. That project includes welding some teeth for a recut or a complete gear made from scratch.

I have never used a dividing head and looking for input from those with more experience to guide me toward the right decision to the following questions:
1. Which head should I focus on getting complete and making it usable in repairing an old lathe gear?
2. Which has the best features and is the most useful of the three heads?
3. Is there any advantage to keeping more than one of the heads?

The first dividing head is a 10 incher. It has no makers ID on it but the seller told me it was a Brown & Sharpe. I received only one dividing plate with it and have since acquired a dog drive plate that fits the threaded spindle. The head does have a spindle tilt feature. No gears or center (B&S #10) came with it. The only benefit I can see about completing and keeping this one is that it is “real cool” and I have a B&S #1D horizontal universal mill to set it on (no drive gears with the mill either). I understand I don’t need the gears to make the spur gear repair or new gear from scratch.
B&S 10 Photo:


The second dividing head is a Kikken (made in Japan 1973) 10 inch model. It has no spindle tilting ability. I believe this is what is called a “Super Spacer. It came with only one dividing plate (internal) and a three jaw chuck. I don’t know if it could be used with a center and drive dog. I also wonder about its usefulness for cutting gears.
Kikken 10 Photo:



The third dividing head is a Van Norman 10 inch that came with one dividing plate, a center, and a dog drive plate. The head tilts and the head as a whole is heavy and seems very strong.
Van Norman 10 Photo:



I do have a foot stock and a steady support in this 10 inch size range. Not original to any of the heads but should fill the need. I also have a set of three indexing plates (not from any of the above) lost somewhere in storage that might be adapted to one of the above if I could just find them.

Thanks for any input you may have.
Benny

 

[Bob Korves]

Well, first, how many teeth will be needed on the spur gear you are making? Then, for each dividing head, what is the number of crank revolutions to make a complete circle on the table, along with what are the dividing plate circle hole counts on hand for each one? What are the division options for the super spacer, although it appears to be capable of more dividing possibilities, and it may be missing dividing plates as well.

 

[Uglydog]

I like my VN swivel.
Heavy beast!
Which ever one(s) you decide to keep let me know which plates you have and the OD/ID. I have a few extra misc plates.
Which DH has the least backlash?
As you have identified they each have their own personalities and feel.
You may need to keep them all!

Daryl
MN

 

[Reeltor]

I concur with Daryl, the Van Norman is a beast. You can replace the center and dog drive on the Van Norman with a chuck. On mine a backplate bolts directly to the head. My head also has a NTMB50 taper that matches my mill and can be setup with a drawbar. Over time, they made them with various tapers, Daryl can probably give you some insight on that.
I think the Super Spacer is something to have after you already have a dividing head for quick divisions.
If you were going to keep only one, the VN cant be beat. Do both the VN and the B&S have the tail to connect to the gear drive on the same side? If not, keep the one that is best suited for your mill. Even if you never use the feature it's nice to know that you can if necessary.
I'd try to keep one of the dividing heads and the super spacer.
You can find additional plates for the SS for different divisions.

http://www.shars.com/media/catalog/...2ffe127f42dca9de82fb58b1/2/0/202-3001main.jpg

 

[bcall2043]

Well, first, how many teeth will be needed on the spur gear you are making? Then, for each dividing head, what is the number of crank revolutions to make a complete circle on the table, along with what are the dividing plate circle hole counts on hand for each one? What are the division options for the super spacer, although it appears to be capable of more dividing possibilities………

Bob,
Thanks for your input.

Today I opened the “super spacer” and it has a 24 division plate in it. It does have degree division scales but would not be the best choice for cutting a gear. If I understand how it works (and my math is correct) it would be most accurate for divisions of 24, 12, 8, 6, 4, 3, & 2. Others divisions would need to be dialed in carefully. I need to determine the ratio of the worm gears and plate numbers for the other two heads I have to see if they could be used to cut the gear I need.

I like my VN swivel……..

…………….. let me know which plates you have and the OD/ID. I have a few extra misc plates.

Which DH has the least backlash?.........

You may need to keep them all!

Daryl
MN

Daryl,

I know you are a knowledgeable Van Norman fan and respect your input. I kind of like the look and feel of the VN dividing head that I have also. I think it may be a keeper.

The one index plate that came with the Van Norman head is marked 38, 39, 41, 42, 43, & 46. I need to determine the worm ration and see if it will cut the gear I need. I will do that tomorrow. Today I did find the extra plates I picked up on one of my visits to Fort Worth at a tool dealer (Honey Hole) I haunt when there. They are kind of strange and don’t seem to the usual indexer plates sets. They are as follows:

Dimensions (tape measured) - 6 7/8 OD, 1 ¾ ID, 2 7/16 BC, 4 Holes.
Plate #1 - 23, 37, 47, 59, 67, 73, 83, & 97.
Plate #2 - 19, 29, 43, 49, 63, 72, 77, &91.
Plate #3 – 17, 31, 41, 53, 61, 71, 79, & 89.
Plate #4 – 22, 28, 32, & 1

I have not measured the backlash in the heads I have but they all feel tight.

Thanks for your feedback and I will let you know about what plate I might need.

……. You can replace the center and dog drive on the Van Norman with a chuck. On mine a backplate bolts directly to the head. My head also has a NTMB50 taper that matches my mill and can be setup with a drawbar. Over time, they made them with various tapers, Daryl can probably give you some insight on that.

I think the Super Spacer is something to have after you already have a dividing head for quick divisions.

If you were going to keep only one, the VN cant be beat. Do both the VN and the B&S have the tail to connect to the gear drive on the same side? If not, keep the one that is best suited for your mill. Even if you never use the feature it's nice to know that you can if necessary.

I'd try to keep one of the dividing heads and the super spacer.

Reeltor,

Thanks for the feedback. I checked the Van Norman today and the center is held in by a drawbar and there is what looks like a backplate behind the dog drive plate. I did not get beyond the back plate to see if there is a NTMB50 taper. The center looks kind of like a 5C collet but with a larger keyway and a smaller thread for the draw bar. A 5C collet would not fit into the Van Norman head.

I did some web searches about uses of these tools and you are right about the “Super Spacer” being handy for quick divisions and “I already have a dividing head”. Without the swivel spindle and the horizontal/vertical mount bases the “super Spacer”would always be at 90 degrees if build accurately.

Thanks again guys! You have enabled me to continue this illness, I am leaning toward keeping the Super Spacer and the Van Norman and focusing on getting or making the needed indexing plate for the VN to repair the lathe needed for the repair.

As Daryl suggested I may just keep all three as they each have some nice features. But for now just try to stay focused!

Benny
Reaffirmed Toolaholic

 

[Superburban]

Gunrunner you need to order a set of these for the Z axis hand crank. Bill did you just spit coffee on your monitor? :rofl:

View attachment 253356

 

[Uglydog]

If she looks like a 5c on the 10inch vertical swivel VN DH, then it's likely the 50v collet also called a VN2 collet.
I've attached a pdf from one of the accessory catalogs. It's likely there is a 50taper to 50v adapter in the spindle.

Daryl
MN

 

[Bob Korves]

Bob,
Thanks for your input.

Today I opened the “super spacer” and it has a 24 division plate in it. It does have degree division scales but would not be the best choice for cutting a gear. If I understand how it works (and my math is correct) it would be most accurate for divisions of 24, 12, 8, 6, 4, 3, & 2. Others divisions would need to be dialed in carefully. I need to determine the ratio of the worm gears and plate numbers for the other two heads I have to see if they could be used to cut the gear I need.
(snip)

If you want to make a gear on one of your dividing heads you need to determine the number of teeth on the gear you plan to make, the number of revolutions of the crank to one revolution of each head, the dividing plate hole circles available for each head, and then we will help you determine if you have something there that will do the job. If the correct hole count on a dividing plate is not available, that can be worked around. Please tell us what you have there and what you are trying to make...