Deckel knock-off tool grinding

[C-Bag]

good job LarryS$. My clamps all worked properly but the flute grinding attachment housing on mine was like .015 sloppy, not a slip fit like it should have been. So I bored and sleeved it. What a cluster that was! The casting had some super hard spots in it so I had to buy carbide tools to get er done. Now its a nice slip fit and I’ve not done another flute. What I’d done was I needed a 5/16 endmill and didn’t have one, but I had a metric one so I ground the flutes down to size even with the head being sloppy. Having the room to do so many cuts to get to size gave me practice and ended up getting it right for the finishing cut. I highly recommend using old dull mills to practice on. My old mill/drill came with a bunch of dull and messed up ones so I didn’t care if they ended up usable or not. That really helps. My brother had a bucket full of dead endmills I shoulda grabbed.

Another mod this could use is either a tiny roller or the probe to rotate that you hold the flute against when doing flutes. Not running any other tool grinders I don’t know if other setups have that, but why not? That would make it so much smoother instead of pulling against a static probe.

I didn’t know about the Shars version and went down the eBay rabbit hole bait and switch. I didn’t know anything but the little Deckel collets were available but found somebody who equipped them with R8. So that’s the route I went. With the Shars they went 5c, way superior for this application because of the ability to go through the collet. So I would think you’d not run out of x axis like I do with R8. I have learned to adapt, but not the wiz like Pontiac428. I did remove the 0 stops in the head to be able to do negative angles. I also want to make a dedicated dust collection head for it because it throws grinding dust everywhere!

 

[Larry$]

good job LarryS$. My clamps all worked properly but the flute grinding attachment housing on mine was like .015 sloppy, not a slip fit like it should have been. So I bored and sleeved it. What a cluster that was! The casting had some super hard spots in it so I had to buy carbide tools to get er done. Now its a nice slip fit and I’ve not done another flute. What I’d done was I needed a 5/16 endmill and didn’t have one, but I had a metric one so I ground the flutes down to size even with the head being sloppy. Having the room to do so many cuts to get to size gave me practice and ended up getting it right for the finishing cut. I highly recommend using old dull mills to practice on. My old mill/drill came with a bunch of dull and messed up ones so I didn’t care if they ended up usable or not. That really helps. My brother had a bucket full of dead endmills I shoulda grabbed.

Another mod this could use is either a tiny roller or the probe to rotate that you hold the flute against when doing flutes. Not running any other tool grinders I don’t know if other setups have that, but why not? That would make it so much smoother instead of pulling against a static probe.

I didn’t know about the Shars version and went down the eBay rabbit hole bait and switch. I didn’t know anything but the little Deckel collets were available but found somebody who equipped them with R8. So that’s the route I went. With the Shars they went 5c, way superior for this application because of the ability to go through the collet. So I would think you’d not run out of x axis like I do with R8. I have learned to adapt, but not the wiz like Pontiac428. I did remove the 0 stops in the head to be able to do negative angles. I also want to make a dedicated dust collection head for it because it throws grinding dust everywhere!

Tolerance control on Chinese tools are "highly variable." Though 5C collets can pass the work through, the Shars tightening handle is solid, no hole. Even if it was well designed the problem with short X travel would still be there, I think? Cutters with long flutes, it doesn't seem like it would be a good idea to close the collets on the flutes. Maybe that's OK?? Anyone??

 

[NC Rick]

I haven't used the flute sharpening adapter, that looks rather ambitious for me. I do use it for form tools and cutters on the lathe using a square collet as opposed to switching out the adapter. My machine isn't located well yet and it is really a commitment for me to use it. Like I mentioned, time sucker... yet the only real way to grind anything not free hand for me. Was it worth it? iDK, it's only been about a year since I got it.

 

[pontiac428]

I did have to install a helicoil in mine. The lock for fixing the rotation of the shaft on the far right of the machine popped out of its threads. Oversize hole, not enough thread engagement. I had a metric helicoil kit on hand, so I took care of it. I watched Robin Renzetti's video where he disassembles the main shaft so I knew the lefts and rights of it, and removed the shaft. Drilled the hole with a hand drill, tapped it, and installed the helicoil with extra care to not leave any protrusions so the lock screw could pass all the way through. That is also where I switched over to Kipp levers, since I didn't trust the threads on the others. What an improvement. I also lapped in the castings on the zenith, azimuth, and tilt axes for smoother motion. And I deburred everything, particularly around the shaft bosses. Huh, I'd kinda forgotten about doing all that.

 

[Larry$]

popped out of its threads. Oversize hole

Chinese hit or miss manufacturing. Comes as a kit. Re-installing the shaft made me think the Chinese ladys that assemble it have smaller hands and are more nimble than I am. Those 4mm hex head cap screws that hold the retaining plate for the main shaft are a treat to install. Good thing I've got a couple of magnetic pickups to fish them out of the casing, multiple times.

I read, saved and printed the Deckel instructions for the SO. Next time I go to the shop will be trying/ experimenting now that I don't have to arm wrestle it. Nothing in the instructions about using it for anything other than single lip cutters. I note that it was assumed you were using an aluminum oxide or similar wheel and were dressing the edge of the wheel to a very fine, tapered edge. The Shars doesn't have a reference line on the main shaft nor the red dot reference mark.
Being cheap, I've never purchased a set of counter bore tools. Always just used a near match end mill to get a flat bottom. I'm hoping that I can sharpen them to produce that flat bottom. I don't need to have it center cutting.

Have any of you sharpened the flutes on an end mill? One small step at a time.

 

[pontiac428]

I've done flutes. The premise is simple. There is room for error in clocking that will still turn out a sharp tool, but hitting a specific diameter would be hard. Flute grinding is where you will need extra band-aids. Prepare them by pulling off half of the backing strip, and stick a row of them along the top of your Sheckel for easy access. Blood can squirt pretty far, just something to be aware of.

The Deckel manual is a good source for D-bit profiles and info. Everything from dovetails to gun drills. The rest, like drill bits and end mills, is an aberrant application that will need to be figured out by you or learned from YouTube or in forum threads frequented by shady people. I wish I could remember to take pictures while I'm working, but I don't. It's usually an afterthought.

 

[gerritv]

Stefan shows how to do 4 facet drill grinds. Takes a few tries to get it into your head but works great. I made a viewing microscope to see progress.

 

[Larry$]

I've saved dull router bits from our CNC machine. Now I intend to grind some of them to use on the mill. As designed for particleboard and MDF they also have cut aluminum quite well on the router. The drawback on the router is lack of lube. It has to be hand sprayed while machine is running. We don't have them sharpened and recoated because it comes too close to new cost ($80) and they have a different size and that risks not getting the machine parameters reset to the correct size.

 

[Larry$]

I went back to Stefan's video about grinding drill bits and he said it didn't hurt to hold on the flutes with the collet.
I've often held threads in a collet but wasn't sure if holding on to the sharp edges was a good idea. I'm making notes about various setups, screen grabs etc. for my file (on computer and printed out for use in the shop) on the grinder. Memory isn't good enough so that a year down the road...

 

[Larry$]

I tried sharpening a 5/16" four flute end mill. I couldn't get it set good enough to reach the center. Several problems showed up. First my sharpening wheel has slightly rounded edges making it impossible to reach the center and be flat. 2nd. there is a slight amount of flex in the grinder arm. Everything is tight but I have to be careful to try and exert the same force on every move. It isn't much but affects getting to exact center.

I was trying for a flat cutting end. Wanted to be able to do counter bores. After several attempts the dim light came on. For a counterbore or most milling operations center cutting isn't required. Solution, set the end mill up on the milling machine and used a carbide drill to take out the center. Back to the tool grinder and take a cleanup cut on each flute.

Back to mill for a test run on some mild steel. Very smooth flat cut. In all of the fooling around I had shortened the cutter enough to get away from any dulling on the sides of the flutes. That's rarely an issue anyhow. It had one edge chipped before I stared.

Two flute end mills that I grind an inverted cone shape (5*+) on the end are a lot easier to do. And they cut fine but leave more machining marks, swerals. Sharpening a 4 flute HSS endmill isn't really worth the time. They are cheap. But so am I.