Checking for twist on Lathe and setting up round column mill

[djs1234567]

Hi guys,

it was suggested to me from long time members that I post this here.

I have not been here for a while, trying to set up my used Jet BD920W, and Rong -Fu RF31. It's slow going but almost there. being very new to this hobby, I have questions?

Checking for twist on ways on the Jet BD920W lathe?
One of the ways on the bed is wide enough for a 1-2-3 block to sit nicely. the way closet to the operator is about 1/4'' wide and 1-2-3 block cannot sit on its on without falling off. the question I have is what's the best option to secure the second 1-2-3 block so I can put my level on it and check for twist from headstock to tailstock?

I had to return my AXA for OXA as you all know that there's overlap. having said that, I have you-tubed and google myself out with trying to find and understand indexable tool holder, boring bars, and the cutters for them, there are just to many options. I am going to be buying 3/8'' indexable and would like to know what products I should be looking at?

A.R. Warner seems good and reasonably priced?

I will probably be turning 1018 and 12L14 and A36. Aluminum 6061, 7075, some brass and bronze. If I need to get different cutters that would be fine. It seems like HSS from research would be a good choice? with a positive angle and rake?



As for the Rong-Fu, which happens to be Taiwan, I'm told luckily!
I would like to know how to square the head so that it is straightforward? I hope I am asking the right question here? I've seen so many people making all kinds of apparatus so when the head is moved up or down it stays in the same position. I would at least like to get started with this process, but have no reference point to start from.

whoever wants to tackle these problems, I'll say thank you in advance. Jay

 

[Chewy]

You might try using a parallel instead of the block. Even if they are not "matched" sets, they should be within a few tenths of each other. You might also try the plumbob method. I made it after seeing on You Tube and found it is as accurate and much faster then the level. Also makes for quick checks if you have any questions. You can custom make the base to hold the parallel or block to suit your machine.

A.R Warner is good along with all of the name brand bits. BUT, they will help bust the budget. I suggest you buy cheap Chineesium stuff on auction or Amazon until you get experience on the machine. Brazed carbide will require grinding, which gives you practice for HSS. With that said, there is a quality difference in the bits. Staring out, you cry less chipping a used endmill of $1 insert then a $10-20 "Real" one. BUT, the finish and speed are worth it once you learn the capabilities of your machine.

I have a lot of Shars tools and holders and find they work well with my machines. If you can find a good condition name brand around the same price, get it instead. My Mititoyo calipers feel better and smoother then my Shars, but in my case, they both read the same.

 

[djs1234567]

You might try using a parallel instead of the block. Even if they are not "matched" sets, they should be within a few tenths of each other. You might also try the plumbob method. I made it after seeing on You Tube and found it is as accurate and much faster then the level. Also makes for quick checks if you have any questions. You can custom make the base to hold the parallel or block to suit your machine.

A.R Warner is good along with all of the name brand bits. BUT, they will help bust the budget. I suggest you buy cheap Chineesium stuff on auction or Amazon until you get experience on the machine. Brazed carbide will require grinding, which gives you practice for HSS. With that said, there is a quality difference in the bits. Staring out, you cry less chipping a used endmill of $1 insert then a $10-20 "Real" one. BUT, the finish and speed are worth it once you learn the capabilities of your machine.

I have a lot of Shars tools and holders and find they work well with my machines. If you can find a good condition name brand around the same price, get it instead. My Mititoyo calipers feel better and smoother then my Shars, but in my case, they both read the same.

Hey Chewy, thank you, could you tell me a little more about using the parallels? Also keep in mind, not sure if you know that the ways on this bed are not even. thats why I cannot put a straight edge across the ways. so maybe the plumb bob will work better , Thanks again, Jay

 

[SLK001]

One of the ways on the bed is wide enough for a 1-2-3 block to sit nicely. the way closet to the operator is about 1/4'' wide and 1-2-3 block cannot sit on its on without falling off. the question I have is what's the best option to secure the second 1-2-3 block so I can put my level on it and check for twist from headstock to tailstock?

I wouldn't worry about the twist from the HS to TS on a 20" bed lathe. Do you have a precision level to check for twist along the length? The tops of the prismatic ways should be in the same plane (planar) and a proper reference point.

On your mill, once the table is level, you can use it as a reference to set the head perpendicular.

 

[T Bredehoft]

Once again, I feel it my duty to warn someone away from investing in Inserted tooling for a 9" lathe.

Your lathe doesn't have the power/size to benefit from Carbide cutters. Yes, Warner sells High Speed inserts, but (to coin a phrase) you've gotta learn to walk before you can ride a bike.

Read Mikey's teachings on grinding high speed tools. That and a bit of practice will teach you all you need to know about lathe cutting tools.

 

[djs1234567]

I wouldn't worry about the twist from the HS to TS on a 20" bed lathe. Do you have a precision level to check for twist along the length? The tops of the prismatic ways should be in the same plane (planar) and a proper reference point.

On your mill, once the table is level, you can use it as a reference to set the head perpendicular.

Hi SLK001, I am waiting on the level. If i understand correctly about the ways, this machine has 2 different heights of ways. there are 2 flats, one on the operator side and one on the back way, that are level to each other but thats where the problem is, that one way is about 1/4'' wide. there are 2 V-style ways front and back that are different heights.

On the mill, the table is level. not sure how to set perpendicular? I have watched many youtube videos, but have not seen any to do that. maybe I am asking the wrong question. Thanks, Jay

 

[Chewy]

You use the 1-2-3 block on one side and a 1" x 1/8"or 1/4" on the other. You can clamp two together to make 2". You can also take two pieces of metal or wood and lay them down across the ways. Cut notches in the side to hold parallels of the correct size to stand up on the ways. You say the ways are not even, then what were you going to put the other block on? The Plumbob method can be customized to fit your lathe. I had to notch mine to fit flat on the ways. This way will take care of twist. NOT level. Lathes don't have to be level, BUT, they must be straight. There will be plenty of posts saying that lathes on ships aren't level, and they are correct. The lathes do stay straight and true no matter what the roll or pitch. If you can't get a good measurement off the ways, take the saddle off and measure it upside down for the difference. Build the block to fit. here is the thread from months ago. Very simple and fun project to make. The plumbob is adjusted for your machine and it's tilt and then marks on made on it. Then it needs t stay exactly the same as you move down the ways.
In other words, if your lathe has a 1 degree slant down to the operator at head stock, then that has to be the same at the tailstock. A 1-1/4 degree twist will show up because the mark won't be the same. If the lathe has a 1 degree angle down toward the tailstock. That will not show up as different. That will stay the same and not make a difference in the operation. With that said, the more level, the better and you can do that on the side that will hold the block.

I Hate Leveling Machines

I noticed that I have been cutting a lot of tapers lately. I wanted to get the lathe dead on to do a steam engine and taper in the cylinder bore isn't a good idea. The mill has been hit or miss but hasn't bothered what I made. The lathe was leveled originally with a Starrett 98-6 level. I...

www.hobby-machinist.com

There is a saying that you can't machine it if you can't hold it. Everything you do will be an exercise in how to make do.

On the mill, tramming sets the head perpendicular. Blondihacks covers that pretty good.

 

[djs1234567]

Once again, I feel it my duty to warn someone away from investing in Inserted tooling for a 9" lathe.

Your lathe doesn't have the power/size to benefit from Carbide cutters. Yes, Warner sells High Speed inserts, but (to coin a phrase) you've gotta learn to walk before you can ride a bike.

Read Mikey's teachings on grinding high speed tools. That and a bit of practice will teach you all you need to know about lathe cutting tools.

OK, Thank you. I will read Mikey's teachings. But are you saving its ok to get the A.R. Warner inserts at least to start? I don't think its a big investment for about $50.00 as long as I can find the right ones for my tool holders as long as I don't have to but new tool holders?

 

[T Bredehoft]

I can't knock Warner and his tools, but you will sometime need to know how to grind tools, Warner may not make inserts for your needs. Just don't become dependent upon commercial tools. Get some 1/4" square HSS tools and grind a couple of cutters. You'll benefit from the experience.

 

[djs1234567]

You use the 1-2-3 block on one side and a 1" x 1/8"or 1/4" on the other. You can clamp two together to make 2". You can also take two pieces of metal or wood and lay them down across the ways. Cut notches in the side to hold parallels of the correct size to stand up on the ways. You say the ways are not even, then what were you going to put the other block on? The Plumbob method can be customized to fit your lathe. I had to notch mine to fit flat on the ways. This way will take care of twist. NOT level. Lathes don't have to be level, BUT, they must be straight. There will be plenty of posts saying that lathes on ships aren't level, and they are correct. The lathes do stay straight and true no matter what the roll or pitch. If you can't get a good measurement off the ways, take the saddle off and measure it upside down for the difference. Build the block to fit. here is the thread from months ago. Very simple and fun project to make. The plumbob is adjusted for your machine and it's tilt and then marks on made on it. Then it needs t stay exactly the same as you move down the ways.
In other words, if your lathe has a 1 degree slant down to the operator at head stock, then that has to be the same at the tailstock. A 1-1/4 degree twist will show up because the mark won't be the same. If the lathe has a 1 degree angle down toward the tailstock. That will not show up as different. That will stay the same and not make a difference in the operation. With that said, the more level, the better and you can do that on the side that will hold the block.

I Hate Leveling Machines

I noticed that I have been cutting a lot of tapers lately. I wanted to get the lathe dead on to do a steam engine and taper in the cylinder bore isn't a good idea. The mill has been hit or miss but hasn't bothered what I made. The lathe was leveled originally with a Starrett 98-6 level. I...

www.hobby-machinist.com

There is a saying that you can't machine it if you can't hold it. Everything you do will be an exercise in how to make do.

On the mill, tramming sets the head perpendicular. Blondihacks covers that pretty good.

I understand perfectly about the parallels!!! and thank you for the link to the plumb bob.
I have been a woodworker for about 20 years as a side hobby, AND A GREESE MONKEY FOR A LONG TIME.
I use a 14-40 wood lathe, tell me if this sounds right?

If I put a dead center in the head and tail stock, and line up the points should that at least get me started in the right direction? I understand that is not checking for twist for one end to the other.

I have watched all of blondiehacks, including tramming, but she has a square or rectangular column. What I don't understand, again unless I am asking the wrong question, how by tramming will that set the head parallel at 90 degrees to the table? couldn't it still be off 1 or more degrees to the left or right of center? Sorry if I am being repetitious. Just can't wrap my head around that.

I think what she is doing is making sure the head is not tilted one way or the other by getting the same measurement from one side of the table to the other.