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Carriage Lock Options Titan Tl180

Discussion in 'MINI-LATHE & MINI-MILL INFORMATION' started by c60, Aug 23, 2016.

  1. c60

    c60 Australia Active Member Active Member

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    I have a Titan Lathe which is 95% + parts interchangeable with a Sieg C2/C3. My issue is the carriage lacks a stop . I saw one advertised on Ebay fairly cheaply (specifically for the Sieg) and now I have it I realise it just won't work. I particularly want to stop carriage push back to the right when manually cutting left towards the chuck or when facing.

    The stop I purchased has two issues:-

    1. The lever is way too tall and hits the top slide, even a substituted in short bolt catches.
    2. The spring loaded stop bolt sits in a countersunk hole so does not work same if switched to right. If left (on left) the stop bolt head sits on a screw head on the carriage and obviously cannot be depth adjusted in situ.

    In short, this stop is designed ONLY to sit to left side of the carriage and not the right.

    I have made a quick and dirty stop (out of an old brass window frame latch) that sits middle of bed but really would like to know how others have solved this one.

    Sorry for any condensation in images, warm humid morning after a chilly night. Another constant battle.
     

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    Last edited: Aug 23, 2016
  2. mikey

    mikey Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I must be a bit dense so let me see if I understand - your saddle is moving back toward the tailstock when engaged in a turning operation or when facing? Whenever you are manually or powerfeeding toward the chuck it should not be able to move back at the same time. When facing it also should not move and if it does then you can lock the carriage to the ways.

    I have never seen a carriage stop used on the right side of the carriage before. Haven't even heard this before. No disrespect intended, c60; just befuddled that you need something like this. If I am misunderstanding you, please clarify.
     
  3. c60

    c60 Australia Active Member Active Member

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    You are correct Mikey, the carriage is moving back towards the tailstock when MANUALLY turning and facing if using the top slide or cross slide. There is no carriage locking to prevent this. Power feeding is obviously not an issue because of engagement. There is no "off" on the power feed to lock on either, not that it would be good for the half nut. (correction, there is an "off" but there is slack in the drive shaft allowing movement back by about .7mm, a no win.)
    I see no need for a stop on the chuck side of the carriage at present but then I haven't really needed to face or cut towards the tail yet.

    Just got a reply from the supplier and it is as you said Mikey:-

    "I have checked with the factory. This stop is actually designed for fit on the left of the carriage, but not used on the right.

    The adjustable spring loaded bolt is for you to adjust the stopping point of the carriage at a certain point when feeding from right to the left.. "

    Item isn't therefore too useful to me at this point.

     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2016
  4. mikey

    mikey Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Okay, if the carriage is moving when you turn or face with the top slide (called the compound over here) then lock the carriage with the locking bolt that is usually located on the right side of the saddle base. Typically there is a plate that fits under the ways to perform the locking function and that will stop the saddle from moving. If you replace the locking bolt with a lever-type bolt it takes a flip of the wrist to lock and unlock and it will quickly become part of your work flow.

    A carriage stop is an extremely useful little thing. It will help when boring to a flat bottom and stop you from hitting your chuck with a turning tool when working close to the chuck. If yours fits your ways and locks solidly, hang onto it. One day you will learn to appreciate that thing. I wouldn't want to try to do a precision bore using power feed without a good stop.

    Hope this helps.
     
  5. c60

    c60 Australia Active Member Active Member

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    Thanks once again Mike.
    There is no locking bolt, or if there is then it is right above the half nut housing and I can't even squeeze a finger tip or hex key in there never mind a locking lever. I think those bolts are just the plate mount bolts anyway, 4 at front, 4 at back, already tight.

    I am sure the stop I bought will be essential someday, and yes it is a perfect fit on the front ways below the 3 jaw chuck.
     
  6. mikey

    mikey Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    My apologies, Sir. I looked up the Sieg C2 and it does not have a carriage lock. It appears folks are making them as a mod. I searched for "Sieg C2 carriage lock" and came up with several designs - check it out. This is what you need, not a carriage stop. Should be a very simple project - hope this helps.
     
  7. c60

    c60 Australia Active Member Active Member

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    I have to admit it does seem both illogical and unbelievable that there are machines out there that lack a lock. No need to apologise, Sieg and clones are very common so there are a lot of us out there in this situation. Hopefully this thread will help one of the others avoid a doh! moment after purchasing the Sieg branded stop.

    This is my error in assuming "Stop" and "Lock" amounted to same thing.

    Found a very nice saddle mod on this site in the threads but I think the saddle on the Sieg is too small for that. I am doing as you suggest via Google and I'm sure I'll hit something appropriate. Thanks again.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2016
  8. mikey

    mikey Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    No problem.

    I happened to look on LMS and they have one for sale:
    http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2977

    Not sure if it will fit but it might save some work if it does. I'll try to insert an image of it installed ...

    IMG_4579%20_Medium_.jpg

    Looks easy to make if you have a mill but its cheap enough to buy even if you do. On further investigation, it seems that the lack of a carriage lock is a big deal for many Sieg owners so thanks; I learned something today.
     
  9. c60

    c60 Australia Active Member Active Member

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    That one is perfect! Not a fit for the Titan TL180V unfortunately.

    Holes on left are for the travelling rest.

    Excuse the odd colours in these images, My mobile has developed a fault, I get one good shot before the magenta overwhelms. For this it isn't worth getting out the big camera.
     

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  10. pineyfolks

    pineyfolks Active User Active Member

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    If you're just using this during facing operations could you run the tailstock against the carriage or make a piece to go between it using the tailstock as your lock?
     
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  11. c60

    c60 Australia Active Member Active Member

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    Possibly, nice to have the tail stock well out of the work area if not required. These mini lathes are a bit tight on space. For the time being I'll use that little brass stop I made while I think up something better. Reminds me the other item that would really pay off is a couple or three longer style MT2 dead centres.
     
  12. mikey

    mikey Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I just looked at this one on Youtube:

    Looks pretty simple to implement and it seems to work rather well. Worth a look maybe?
     
  13. c60

    c60 Australia Active Member Active Member

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    Looks to be the answer for sure. As you have seen in the photos it is about time the lathe got a strip down and good clean anyway. Thanks.
     
  14. Dan_S

    Dan_S Active User Active Member

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    The 8x14s lock isn't obvious either but it does have one. This is a typical mod.
    http://www.machinistblog.com/carriage-lock-modification-for-8x12-or-8x14-lathe/

    Basically the saddle clamp plate is slit and when you tighten down the bolt, it squeezes the bed and locks the carriage. It looks like you could do the same thing on the 7x14, but you would need to do it from the bottom by making a long stud that sticks down.
     
  15. mikey

    mikey Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    The pics I saw of the SeigC2 show a gib that runs the length of the saddle that would prevent the 8X lock from being implemented - not sure about the Titan version, though.
     
  16. c60

    c60 Australia Active Member Active Member

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    The one in the YouTube video is a perfect match for the Titan TL180
     
  17. c60

    c60 Australia Active Member Active Member

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    Job done. :)

    As you can see it is as per the YouTube video, Thanks for finding that Mike.

    Bit of a chew on the countersink start, the 2nd clamp decided to let fly a thread at just the wrong moment. Lucky I didn't snap the cutter. Cosmetic thank goodness.

    New Carriage lock.jpg
     
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  18. mikey

    mikey Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    So, does it solve the problem of backwards creep?
     
  19. c60

    c60 Australia Active Member Active Member

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    Absolutely rock solid, and barely 1/8 turn on the hex key from loose to locked.
     
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  20. mikey

    mikey Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Glad you got that worked out, c60. It looks really solid - good job!
     
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