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- Jan 22, 2011
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Are they indeed cam bolts? I don't see any reason for them to be. Unlike the tailstock, the headstock should not ever need to be moved. Just curious.
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Antique Hardindge Bench Lathe. How to remove spindle head
- Thread starter medida
- Start date
I'm late to the thread, but it looks like you got things figured out.
I have a lathe almost identical to yours except mine is a threaded 5c collet spindle and 9" swing.
The older Cataract/Hardinge lathes used cam-bolts to hold the headstock to the bed, so it could be quickly removed or its position on the bed adjusted to make use of various accessories or attachments, to name a few: riser blocks, special indexing plates, and a milling attachment that fits between the lathe bed and the headstock. The newer enclosed head lathes like yours just stuck with the same design even though there aren't as many accessories for the enclosed head model.
It was pretty common for makers of bench lathes like the Cataract to use cam-bolts, of different styles, and they worked just fine for these little lathes.
As for your lathe rebuild, a word of caution, I would hold off on taking apart the spindle assembly unless it is absolutely necessary. The spindle has fragile cork seals that will almost always fall apart. I would try to use the lathe first to be sure the bearings are fine, if they are shot, then its time to take the spindle apart, but the bearings can be expensive so I am crossing my fingers for you.
Could you take a picture of the headstock and tailstock riser blocks now that you got them off? I haven't seen this style of riser block before.
Tyler
I have a lathe almost identical to yours except mine is a threaded 5c collet spindle and 9" swing.
The older Cataract/Hardinge lathes used cam-bolts to hold the headstock to the bed, so it could be quickly removed or its position on the bed adjusted to make use of various accessories or attachments, to name a few: riser blocks, special indexing plates, and a milling attachment that fits between the lathe bed and the headstock. The newer enclosed head lathes like yours just stuck with the same design even though there aren't as many accessories for the enclosed head model.
It was pretty common for makers of bench lathes like the Cataract to use cam-bolts, of different styles, and they worked just fine for these little lathes.
As for your lathe rebuild, a word of caution, I would hold off on taking apart the spindle assembly unless it is absolutely necessary. The spindle has fragile cork seals that will almost always fall apart. I would try to use the lathe first to be sure the bearings are fine, if they are shot, then its time to take the spindle apart, but the bearings can be expensive so I am crossing my fingers for you.
Could you take a picture of the headstock and tailstock riser blocks now that you got them off? I haven't seen this style of riser block before.
Tyler
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2011
- Messages
- 4,142
My Hardinge-Elgin has cam bolts too. Some of the early Hardinge bench mills used a lathe head as the head of the mill. No outer arbor support for the cutters. It might be possible that the heads could be removed to server double duty as a mill head,or perhaps they just got used to making them that way and continued doing it on later models. What I referred to was on earlier models of lathes.
Hi Phil,
On my old machine the cam bars always remain in situ,, & on the one occasion when I jury rigged this old lathe for a one off job (It is a spare machine-- No space, Damn!) nothing moved, Even the tailstock, slides along & locks/unlocks, no problems whatever , & yet upon doing repairs to the machine they could be removed &replaced in no time & easily, How the guys before you broke them I cannot fathom out, because only light pressure locks or unlocks them easily Guess some guys have no finesse, These old U.S.of A. manufacturers were pretty smart at making good little instrument machines.
OK
several comments/questions back to the group:
I took the spindle out (had to, in order to replace the belts).....and yes....had a couple of the cork/felt seals and a couple did break. Where can I get replacement ones? as well as the front and rear spindle head gaskets?
here is a pic of the riser plate for the spindle head
here is the pic of the T Bolt and a spare cam bolt I had
here is the tailstock after I had refurbished it
and finally, here is the spindle. bearings look good
here is the machine as I got it. Can anyone tell me what the model would be? I have heard reference to cataract, spilt lathe, d59 etc....but it is not clear to me what the model is that I have. Want to understand this, so I know what attachments to search for that would work with this lathe
several comments/questions back to the group:
I took the spindle out (had to, in order to replace the belts).....and yes....had a couple of the cork/felt seals and a couple did break. Where can I get replacement ones? as well as the front and rear spindle head gaskets?
here is a pic of the riser plate for the spindle head
here is the pic of the T Bolt and a spare cam bolt I had
here is the tailstock after I had refurbished it
and finally, here is the spindle. bearings look good
here is the machine as I got it. Can anyone tell me what the model would be? I have heard reference to cataract, spilt lathe, d59 etc....but it is not clear to me what the model is that I have. Want to understand this, so I know what attachments to search for that would work with this lathe
The tailstock looks good!
Here is a picture of mine after cleanup and paint:
On the back of the headstock is a little access cover, this sheet metal cover should have some numbers stamped in it, the first 2 numbers are the model, the rest make up the serial number. Mine looks like this :
From looking at the pictures my guess is this is a 3c 7" swing lathe, if my guess is right, the first 2 numbers on the access plate should say 37. Since this is a ball bearing headstock it should be called something like a "Enclosed head BB37 precision bench lathe" as far as I can tell.
I am not sure where to get the cork seals, I have never gone down this road before, but I know others have. Can you show pictures of the seals? As for felt seals, you can get raw sheets of felt to make your own, I have had to do this for older none ball bearing headstocks.
Without the riser blocks, this is a 7" swing lathe, and with, it is a 9" swing lathe. Your in a good situation as far as most of the accessories are concerned because you can set your lathe up for either swing. I think your cross slide is a later 9" swing version, looks nice.
If the spindle is 3c its gonna be a little harder to find collets and quite a bit harder to find chucks or other spindle attachments.
Tyler
Here is a picture of mine after cleanup and paint:
On the back of the headstock is a little access cover, this sheet metal cover should have some numbers stamped in it, the first 2 numbers are the model, the rest make up the serial number. Mine looks like this :
From looking at the pictures my guess is this is a 3c 7" swing lathe, if my guess is right, the first 2 numbers on the access plate should say 37. Since this is a ball bearing headstock it should be called something like a "Enclosed head BB37 precision bench lathe" as far as I can tell.
I am not sure where to get the cork seals, I have never gone down this road before, but I know others have. Can you show pictures of the seals? As for felt seals, you can get raw sheets of felt to make your own, I have had to do this for older none ball bearing headstocks.
Without the riser blocks, this is a 7" swing lathe, and with, it is a 9" swing lathe. Your in a good situation as far as most of the accessories are concerned because you can set your lathe up for either swing. I think your cross slide is a later 9" swing version, looks nice.
If the spindle is 3c its gonna be a little harder to find collets and quite a bit harder to find chucks or other spindle attachments.
Tyler
Tyler
thanks for the note about the serial number/model number.
My lathe was missing this access cover (this explains why I could not find any serial numbers). mystery solved.
It came with ~50 collects (3c) and a collet "chuck" and other chucks. Some pics..
It looks to be a 4.5 swing with the risers (both the spindle head and tailstock have the risers).
I'm trying to take my compound apart to clean. I was able to get the small slide off...but am puzzled on the larger one. There is what looks like a bolt near the cork washer....but this only turns about 1/16 revolution either way. I am afraid to put any more pressure on it, as I do not know what it is. Any thoughts?
thanks for the note about the serial number/model number.
My lathe was missing this access cover (this explains why I could not find any serial numbers). mystery solved.
It came with ~50 collects (3c) and a collet "chuck" and other chucks. Some pics..
It looks to be a 4.5 swing with the risers (both the spindle head and tailstock have the risers).
I'm trying to take my compound apart to clean. I was able to get the small slide off...but am puzzled on the larger one. There is what looks like a bolt near the cork washer....but this only turns about 1/16 revolution either way. I am afraid to put any more pressure on it, as I do not know what it is. Any thoughts?
Looks like you got a good amount of accessories with the lathe which is good since some of it would be hard to find. In the last picture you posted, what is the accessory just to the left of the faceplate? One part of it looks older Hardinge/Cataract, but I am not sure about the rest.
I am not sure what to say about the cork seals, I am guessing you will have to give it a go and try to make replacements.
As for getting the compound apart, that bolt you can't get out, I am pretty sure its another cam bolt, just like the ones that hold the headstock to the bed. In the picture you posted, it looks like there is a tiny hole on the underside of the compound, I am betting that has a small set screw in it, you remove the set screw, and the cam bolt should come out.
Tyler
I am not sure what to say about the cork seals, I am guessing you will have to give it a go and try to make replacements.
As for getting the compound apart, that bolt you can't get out, I am pretty sure its another cam bolt, just like the ones that hold the headstock to the bed. In the picture you posted, it looks like there is a tiny hole on the underside of the compound, I am betting that has a small set screw in it, you remove the set screw, and the cam bolt should come out.
Tyler
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2011
- Messages
- 2,476
Whilst not a very exhaustive search, or even an exemplary answer i did find this,
Apparently it is normally located on the headstock under the spindle
That is a very good example of the S/# being made clearly obvious, but serial numbers are always permanently marked on another major part of the machine that would always remain part of the machine, and never only on a component that could easily be changed out or removed.......
However having said that it is usually the bed that is stamped, as the headstock whilst not being normally swapped out, is able to be changed out......... So I really dont know for sure
Cheers Phil
Apparently it is normally located on the headstock under the spindle
On the back of the headstock is a little access cover, this sheet metal cover should have some numbers stamped in it, the first 2 numbers are the model, the rest make up the serial number. Mine looks like this :
That is a very good example of the S/# being made clearly obvious, but serial numbers are always permanently marked on another major part of the machine that would always remain part of the machine, and never only on a component that could easily be changed out or removed.......
However having said that it is usually the bed that is stamped, as the headstock whilst not being normally swapped out, is able to be changed out......... So I really dont know for sure
Cheers Phil
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