Another VFD Question

[JR49]

OK, after just finishing the post above, I convinced my wife to get on the floor and take a picture of the motor plate in my Logan lathe. I don't see a spec for "full load amps" or fla, but I'm sure someone will get some info from this pic (provided it shows up). I have no idea if this is the original motor or not, but it, and the lathe, seem to be in really good shape. Was made in 1969 I think. Wish me luck with the pic, thanks for any info you can get from it. JR49(holly crap-I did it)
edit, if anyone needs that number at the very top right of the plate I can try again

 

[JimDawson]

OK, after just finishing the post above, I convinced my wife to get on the floor and take a picture of the motor plate in my Logan lathe. I don't see a spec for "full load amps" or fla, but I'm sure someone will get some info from this pic (provided it shows up). I have no idea if this is the original motor or not, but it, and the lathe, seem to be in really good shape. Was made in 1969 I think. Wish me luck with the pic, thanks for any info you can get from it. JR49(holly crap-I did it)
edit, if anyone needs that number at the very top right of the plate I can try again

3.6 amps @ 208-220

 

[countryguy]

Looks like it is also 50hz or 60jz rated... I think. Thus the 1700rpm at 60 and the 1400 at 50hz. Being that I have been buying a new motor for my VFD this week, I did need to uncover some current settings as well. The spec above seems almost like no load current? But I was into 3 phase setups. If you check the URL here http://www.rm-electrical.com/publis...nical-information/motor-motor-current-charts/
there is a 15AMP FLC Rating typical on .75kw. Anyway, you could simply use a clamp on ammeter and read the current under no load and lathe load setups. Then you know w/o a doubt!

Enjoy oh and tell the misses thanks for the pics! . CG.

 

[JimDawson]

Looks like it is also 50hz or 60jz rated... I think. Thus the 1700rpm at 60 and the 1400 at 50hz. Being that I have been buying a new motor for my VFD this week, I did need to uncover some current settings as well. The spec above seems almost like no load current? But I was into 3 phase setups. If you check the URL here http://www.rm-electrical.com/publis...nical-information/motor-motor-current-charts/
there is a 15AMP FLC Rating typical on .75kw. Anyway, you could simply use a clamp on ammeter and read the current under no load and lathe load setups. Then you know w/o a doubt!

Enjoy oh and tell the misses thanks for the pics! . CG.

A 1 HP, 3Ph @ 208-230V NLA = 1.2, FLA = 3.6, and Locked Rotor Amps= 24


A 1 HP, 1Ph @ 230V NLA = 4.53, FLA = 6.8, and Locked Rotor Amps= 43

 

[ddmunroe]

Re: Another VFD Question (Advice please)

Guys,
I'm looking to use a VFD to achieve "max torque at lower speeds" (max 1500 rpm) I do not need high rev's for this application
(Portable milling machine)

I want the lightest weight 3 phase motor, 6 poles 2-3 HP.

Correct me but if the combination of input frequency to voltage is "low to high then this is this a way to get increased torque at lower rpm's
If this is true that's good *but I don't want any motor burn out issues.
This motor may run up to 8 hrs per day on end.

I'm also looking for a VFD product and supplier that can handle our 50 hertz 240 volt power (I'm located in Aus)
Have looked but have not come across a vfd supplier here.

Am I on the right track,
Thank you
dd

 

[JimDawson]

For the motor you are going to want an Inverter Duty motor. These are designed to be able to run slow without overheating. Light weight is a bit subjective, 2HP = 88 Lbs, 3HP = 108 Lbs. These have an aluminum case.

Almost all VFDs will operate at 50 or 60 Hz.

I don't know what your budget is for this project, Siemens, SEW Eurodrive, and Allen Bradly are very available in Aus., but not cheap, as are Yasakawa, Mitsubishi, and others. Automation Direct, in the USA, has excellent equipment and is in the mid price range, pretty sure they ship international. On the low end there is always Ebay and a bunch of Asian equipment.

I think you are going in the right direction.

 

[The Landshark]

For extended low speed running you will have overheating issues, i have had several problems with this in the past, i fitted a 240v enclosure fan to the fan shroud of a motor,
this kept it cool and have had no hassle since, this was done on a pump that an engineer decided to massively overspec, it was running at 5-8Hz to achieve the required delivery

 

[ddmunroe]

For the motor you are going to want an Inverter Duty motor. These are designed to be able to run slow without overheating. Light weight is a bit subjective, 2HP = 88 Lbs, 3HP = 108 Lbs. These have an aluminum case.

Almost all VFDs will operate at 50 or 60 Hz.

I don't know what your budget is for this project, Siemens, SEW Eurodrive, and Allen Bradly are very available in Aus., but not cheap, as are Yasakawa, Mitsubishi, and others. Automation Direct, in the USA, has excellent equipment and is in the mid price range, pretty sure they ship international. On the low end there is always Ebay and a bunch of Asian equipment.

I think you are going in the right direction.

Hi Jim, I'll do more research for over here, many of my HB friends and machining contacts are buying things engineer related from the USA. Even with shipping it's cheaper. As far as the unit I won't go cheap cheap I prefer mid range pricing and get the most value per dollar, 88 lbs !! Jeez I hope not that heavy .... as I say I'll do some research if so so be it.

For extended low speed running you will have overheating issues, i have had several problems with this in the past, i fitted a 240v enclosure fan to the fan shroud of a motor,
this kept it cool and have had no hassle since, this was done on a pump that an engineer decided to massively overspec, it was running at 5-8Hz to achieve the required delivery

Hi did you get any temperature readings for when the motor was overheating before and after with the fan installed, good idea !
)
dd

 

[ddmunroe]

For the motor you are going to want an Inverter Duty motor. These are designed to be able to run slow without overheating. Light weight is a bit subjective, 2HP = 88 Lbs, 3HP = 108 Lbs. These have an aluminum case.

Almost all VFDs will operate at 50 or 60 Hz.

I don't know what your budget is for this project, Siemens, SEW Eurodrive, and Allen Bradly are very available in Aus., but not cheap, as are Yasakawa, Mitsubishi, and others. Automation Direct, in the USA, has excellent equipment and is in the mid price range, pretty sure they ship international. On the low end there is always Ebay and a bunch of Asian equipment.

I think you are going in the right direction.

I had a specific question about low speed and high torque I found the answer on a Hitachi site Read below :http://dealerselectric.com/VFD_story.asp
Variable frequency drives now play an important part in major industry. Within the last 10 years they have been perfected to control and vary the speed of 3 phase electric motors. You may have heard them referred to as adjustable frequency drives, VFDs, and/or inverters.They serve many purposes, besides speed control. If you are a homeowner or hobbyist who purchased a lathe or milling machine with a 3 phase electric motor you are faced with a dilemma. You probably don’t have 3 phase power to operate it. Before variable frequency drives you had to purchase a rotary phase converter. That would effectively convert your single phase power to 3 phase power. Rotary phase converters are noisy and are not the ideal item you would want in your basement. Today these solid state variable frequency drives convert single phase power to 3 phase power silently and efficiently. They are available in 115 volts or 230 volts single phase input.Variable frequency drives have also played a major part in the growth of industry. They are known for reducing the consumption of electrical power. Many utility companies have offered and are still offering significant rebates when purchasing these items. They reduce the inrush current and have lowered the demand for more power. These drives have also been improved and are available in sensorless vector models. These allow significant torque control, especially at lower speeds.Many options are available for variable frequency drives. Dynamic braking as well as remote keypads are 2 of the most popular requests. When selecting a drive it is important to mention the application. They are available in constant torque or variable torque models.From home use to industrial use, variable frequency drives are actively used. In industry irrigation pumps as well as rock crushers are just 2 of the many areas of use. Home workshops have been set up in garages and basements throughout this country with the use of these drives.
So I need a VFD that is a sensorless vector model


- - - Updated - - -

As an example:
This model is close to what I'm looking for ... still finding out ..... still researching
I prefer a Hitachi Model apparently a better quality product

Teco 3 HP, 230 Volts, IP 20, Teco, JNEV-203-H1 Item#: JNEV-203-H1 230 Volts 1 Phase Input, 230 Volts 3 Phase Output Stock: 20 HP : 3 Enclosure : IP 20 Manufacturer : Teco Input Voltage : 230 Input Phase : 1 Output Voltage : 230 Output Phase : 3 Condition : Factory New Weight: 5 lbs Our Price: $215.00 Qty:

Description MOD. JNEV-203-H1 230V 1-PHASE INPUT/3-PHASE OUTPUT SENSORLESS VECTOR DRIVE AMPS 10.5 CONSTANT TORQUE HEIGHT = 5.20 WIDTH = 4.65 DEPTH = 5.83 4 LBS. IP 20 ENCLOSURE - FACTORY NEW WITH MANUFACTURERS WARRANTY

 

[JimDawson]

I had a specific question about low speed and high torque I found the answer on a Hitachi site Read below :http://dealerselectric.com/VFD_story.asp
Variable frequency drives now play an important part in major industry. Within the last 10 years they have been perfected to control and vary the speed of 3 phase electric motors. You may have heard them referred to as adjustable frequency drives, VFDs, and/or inverters.They serve many purposes, besides speed control. If you are a homeowner or hobbyist who purchased a lathe or milling machine with a 3 phase electric motor you are faced with a dilemma. You probably don’t have 3 phase power to operate it. Before variable frequency drives you had to purchase a rotary phase converter. That would effectively convert your single phase power to 3 phase power. Rotary phase converters are noisy and are not the ideal item you would want in your basement. Today these solid state variable frequency drives convert single phase power to 3 phase power silently and efficiently. They are available in 115 volts or 230 volts single phase input.Variable frequency drives have also played a major part in the growth of industry. They are known for reducing the consumption of electrical power. Many utility companies have offered and are still offering significant rebates when purchasing these items. They reduce the inrush current and have lowered the demand for more power. These drives have also been improved and are available in sensorless vector models. These allow significant torque control, especially at lower speeds.Many options are available for variable frequency drives. Dynamic braking as well as remote keypads are 2 of the most popular requests. When selecting a drive it is important to mention the application. They are available in constant torque or variable torque models.From home use to industrial use, variable frequency drives are actively used. In industry irrigation pumps as well as rock crushers are just 2 of the many areas of use. Home workshops have been set up in garages and basements throughout this country with the use of these drives.
So I need a VFD that is a sensorless vector model


- - - Updated - - -

As an example:
This model is close to what I'm looking for ... still finding out ..... still researching
I prefer a Hitachi Model apparently a better quality product

I agree with your VFD Selection.

Another motor type that you might look into is a BrushLess DC (BLDC), also known as servo motors. Maybe in the 1.5 to 2 Kw range. They are a 3 phase motor with a permanent magnet rotor. These have a much flatter torque curve and will produce almost 100% torque at 0 rpm. Also the weight is about 1/2 that of a standard 3 phase motor of the same power. I have seen these for sale in the USD$ 500 range with the controller, they may also be powered by a VFD.

There was a pretty good discussion of BLDC motors here http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php?t=23297&p=206307&viewfull=1#post206307