Accuracy of Machinist Levels

@mikey The lathe has been on it long enough that it has slightly bowed the center. Now with a level that can pickup (heavily) something as thick as a piece of paper, a slight bow feels more like an Evil Knievel ramp. The level isn't the problem perse, it's mounting it to something organic. I think the OP was going to use a type of partial board. Again, I was used to normal level when I went to calibrate mine. I have a new respect for what "level" means. I do not want anyone to believe I nailed it on my lathe, but when I say close, it probably equates to 20 thou over 10". Many would shake their heads at that, but I'm realistic and my table changes every time is rains. I look at the work I'm doing and accept that close is good. If I insisted on perfect with my setup, I probably would have blamed my level and tossed it in the scrap heap. I love my level now that its....level.
 
I agree with Mikey. Cast iron moves, actually pretty easily. If you have a relatively light lathe and a light stand/bench. the bench/stand may not have enough rigidity to force the lathe into position. Over time the two will reach some sort of compromise. Using a very sensitive level you can check for twist. Record your readings and go back later and see if the readings are the same. Turning a test bar between centers is very accurate, for that one location of the tail stock. It says nothing about the overall shape of the bed. Putting the level on the carriage so you can traverse the length of the bed is a good method BUT because the carriage has more weight and more force affecting the front than the rear, it will wear the front of the bed more than the back. The result will look like a twist but only be uneven wear. The more used the lathe the more variation. My Polish made level could drive me nuts on a worn lathe. Could never get there. My lathe and cast iron stand weigh about 2700 #s. I don't know if they are dowel pinned or just bolted together. Likely just bolted. That being the cast there may be enough stress to move the two parts relative to each other over time. I was careful to place it on one slab of concrete, no control joint or crack under it. Concrete moves. How far do we want to take this?
 
Though I might come off a little over the top with my relationship with machinist levels, let me remind you the title of this thread. I remember a couple months back, the frustration myself and another member here were going though trying to calibrate our levels (ones that were disassembled out of calibration) it was very humbling. I LITERALLY have 15.... Maybe more, hours trying to sort it out. When I was done, i saw just how sensitive it was. There was no metal feeler gauge i could put under one side and not nearly peg it to that side. For any newb with a machinist level, they don't know to let it sit in the room your using it in for a couple hours to settle to that temp, don't touch it with your hands using it, at least not for long. None of this is crazy talk, and that to me IS crazy.
 
I'll probably make a separate thread when it actually comes time to do any leveling. Currently the machine is in pieces and is slated to receive a thorough cleaning and maybe new coat of paint. This topic was just one that came to mind since it's something I know I will need to be thinking about moving forward when the machine is reassembled. I do like the idea of leveling feet on the machine itself so that I don't have to struggle with shims for adjustment. It's an Atlas QC54 so it does not have any leveling provisions built in. Does anyone have images or links for a suitable style of leveling foot to purchase or make? After reflecting on it briefly, I would think one would want the foot to bolt to the work bench, and then have a mechanism (simple nut and thread) for adjusting the lathe.
 
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Chandler, have a look at this thread. TerryH did a nice job with his mount. I suggest you consider it and I would also suggest that you ALSO put levelers on each leg of the bench. It may surprise you how useful tweaking a leg leveler can be when trying to fine tune the level of your lathe. To be clear, leveling adjusters under the feet of the lathe AND under the legs of the bench can alter the overall level of the lathe once the lathe is bolted down.
 
Chandler, perhaps a better way to discuss precision levels is to tell you what the overall procedure is, so that you can understand the role a good level plays.

Leveling a lathe simply means we are trying to get the ways of the lathe to be co-planar so that there is no twist across the bed. The reason we do this is because an un-level lathe will turn a taper into your work piece. The way we remove twist is to use a level across the ways at the headstock end and at the tailstock end and use leveling adjusters under the lathe, under the stand or both. When both ends of the lathe are level that indicates that both ways, front and rear, are in the same plane. Typically, using a level like this will get your lathe very close to level but it may/probably will still produce tapered cuts unless you fine tune the leveling even further. The way we do this is with a 2-collar test that allows you to really fine tune your levelers to ideally remove all evidence of a taper in the work piece. Go look up the 2-collar test to see how this is done. When both collars are the same diameter after test cuts, the lathe is level. Know that all lathes move and a preliminary leveling must be repeated in a week or two and then checked every so often to make sure nothing moves.

Now, with that background, the role of a precision level is the same as a less precise level. For example, a Starrett 98-8 is sensitive to 0.005"/foot, whereas the level you showed above is sensitive to 0.0002"/foot. As noted by the other guys, a 98-8 is not all that sensitive but it will still get you close enough and you can use a 2-collar test to get you the rest of the way. The advantage to the more sensitive precision level is that it will get you closer a lot faster, so that you will do far fewer trial cuts with your 2-collar test. This may not seem like a big enough difference to justify the cost of a precision level but it can mean hours of saved time, literally.

I have both a Starrett 98-6 and a Kinex precision level sensitive to 0.02mm/Meter and the difference in time that the better level saves can be significant. I use the Starrett to get me close, then switch to the Kinex to get me closer. When the Kinex says I'm level, I am maybe one or possibly two cuts away in a 2-collar test to dead level, and we're talking about resolution in the low tenths to zero over a 10-12" distance.

So, think of the need for a precision level in terms of time and frustration. The more sensitive the level, the less time you will spend doing test cuts.

As for your bench, as long as it is solid and the whole top provides a stable platform, it should be fine. Just make sure you have some way to level the lathe and the stand so you can make the adjustments you need.
I am a level machine kinda guy, but Warner Swazy didn't worry about that, their levels had an adusttable vial so you adjusted level by the headstock and made the tail end match
 
Though I might come off a little over the top with my relationship with machinist levels, let me remind you the title of this thread. I remember a couple months back, the frustration myself and another member here were going though trying to calibrate our levels (ones that were disassembled out of calibration) it was very humbling. I LITERALLY have 15.... Maybe more, hours trying to sort it out. When I was done, i saw just how sensitive it was. There was no metal feeler gauge i could put under one side and not nearly peg it to that side. For any newb with a machinist level, they don't know to let it sit in the room your using it in for a couple hours to settle to that temp, don't touch it with your hands using it, at least not for long. None of this is crazy talk, and that to me IS crazy.
Best one is when someone wipes the dust off of the vial....I just go get coffee and let it normalize again.
Customer opens the door in cool weather and the level changes....
 
I might mention the level is parallel to the earth’s diameter at the latitude it was set at You only have 100 miles north and south of that latitude before it might go out of correction Machinist levels aren’t really all that accurate coincidence levels are much more accurate time cost of course a whole lot more my coincidence levels are accurate to one second to a park or 1 inch to 200,000 inches
 
Thank you everyone for the advice! Are these the inexpensive levels on eBay that everyone is speaking of? I can find what looks like the same 8" level from any number of sellers for around $60. I am concerned that I won't be able to level my lathe very precisely, I'm bolting it to a 2" thick industrial countertop made of very heavy particle board, which I think is rigid. However the legs are 4x4 posts that are braced with 2x6, I am worried that with the tendency of wood to expand and contract that this could introduce twist. Will using such a precise level with my chosen mounting method be a hopeless endeavor?
Don't buy that. I have one, and it is finicky, inconsistent, and just overall terrible. I have no idea how they managed it, but I don't get the same reading every time.
 
I am a level machine kinda guy, but Warner Swazy didn't worry about that, their levels had an adusttable vial so you adjusted level by the headstock and made the tail end match
That's an interesting approach to taking the twist out of a bed.
At first blush, I like it.
 
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