- Joined
- Jan 2, 2014
- Messages
- 8,854
Hi Gang,
I'm looking for a little advice from those that have "been there and done that".
The patient is a 2012 Dodge Ram 1500.
I had been hoping that the exhaust noise I started to hear was the (fairly accessible) joint between down pipes (with the cat converters) and the extension pipe back to the muffler. I had done a clamp replacement there previously, but no, the leak is near the engine. The manifold to converter joints also look okay and are not "puffing".
From my research on "the net" it is normally broken bolts (M8x1.25), and not actually cracked manifolds.
Apparently this is very common on this vehicle and due to the manifolds changing shape during hot/cold cycles.
I have replacement gaskets in hand, and the bolts should be here today.
Next I need to check the condition of the manifolds.
I tried looking from below, but nothing was visible/accessible.
Last night I got the passenger side up on blocks, wheel off, fender liner off, and then heat shield off for my first good look.
On this side I see one broken bolt; the top one at the back, oddly the most accessible one.
Of course who knows how many other bolts will break during removal.
These are steel bolts into the aluminum head with cast-iron manifolds.
So far the manifold looks okay.
The noise really doesn't concern me too much, but the exhaust smell in the vehicle does.
It's not too bad when I'm moving, but during warm-up and sitting at lights it is very noticeable.
It's also noisy enough that I cannot really tell if the drivers side also needs attention.
The drivers side is slight more work with the steering linkage in the way.
I have not taken it in for a quote, but from what I see online, this would likely be $1500-$2000 to have done (assuming both sides).
However, in true HM style and inline with my sig line I'd rather do this myself.
Plus I'd rather spend money on tools I can keep after this job is complete.
I have ordered a Milwaukee cordless right-angle drill, but it won't be here until next week.
I also have new stud remover tool that was recommended in one of the online references.
....and of course whatever I do is outside in January in Canada....
Q1) Can I just stop now and put up with it until warmer weather?
What additional damage could happen?
Some concerns:
More manifold bolts could break in the next few months.
Extra heat in the engine bay affecting plastics, wire insulation, etc.
Lower backpressure to the affected cylinders.
I could live with reduced mileage for a couple months......
I could probably work-around the exhaust in the cab.....
Since the sound is worse at start up (cold) than when it warms up, I assume that the manifold is still changing shape with temperature.
Therefore simply (yeah, right!) replacing the manifold bolts would likely lead to the same failure again, but likely years down the road.
Once I get a manifold off I intend to put the mating face on the surface plate and test for rocking, gaps, etc.
Q2) Would setting it up on the mill and fly-cutting the sealing face help at all if it is still warping?
Is there a heat-treat cycle that they could be run thru to normalize the casting?
I do have a small heat-treat oven, but don't know if the manifolds would fit.
I could get replacement manifolds, but there's really no guarantee that they would be any better (flatter and less likely to warp) than the ones currently on the engine.
I intend to (over) use a high-temp, copper-based anti-seize on all the bolts.
I have all the various "rusted bolt" procedures in mind; penetrating oil, stud remover, oxy-actylene for heat, left-handed drill bits, welding on washer/nut, etc.
I don't think I'll bother with an easy-out ever again, I don't believe they have ever worked for me.
Thanks for any feedback!
Brian
By the way, we need a forum for regular "Automotive Stuff" (not just classic cars, rockets, boats, etc.)
I'm looking for a little advice from those that have "been there and done that".
The patient is a 2012 Dodge Ram 1500.
I had been hoping that the exhaust noise I started to hear was the (fairly accessible) joint between down pipes (with the cat converters) and the extension pipe back to the muffler. I had done a clamp replacement there previously, but no, the leak is near the engine. The manifold to converter joints also look okay and are not "puffing".
From my research on "the net" it is normally broken bolts (M8x1.25), and not actually cracked manifolds.
Apparently this is very common on this vehicle and due to the manifolds changing shape during hot/cold cycles.
I have replacement gaskets in hand, and the bolts should be here today.
Next I need to check the condition of the manifolds.
I tried looking from below, but nothing was visible/accessible.
Last night I got the passenger side up on blocks, wheel off, fender liner off, and then heat shield off for my first good look.
On this side I see one broken bolt; the top one at the back, oddly the most accessible one.
Of course who knows how many other bolts will break during removal.
These are steel bolts into the aluminum head with cast-iron manifolds.
So far the manifold looks okay.
The noise really doesn't concern me too much, but the exhaust smell in the vehicle does.
It's not too bad when I'm moving, but during warm-up and sitting at lights it is very noticeable.
It's also noisy enough that I cannot really tell if the drivers side also needs attention.
The drivers side is slight more work with the steering linkage in the way.
I have not taken it in for a quote, but from what I see online, this would likely be $1500-$2000 to have done (assuming both sides).
However, in true HM style and inline with my sig line I'd rather do this myself.
Plus I'd rather spend money on tools I can keep after this job is complete.
I have ordered a Milwaukee cordless right-angle drill, but it won't be here until next week.
I also have new stud remover tool that was recommended in one of the online references.
....and of course whatever I do is outside in January in Canada....
Q1) Can I just stop now and put up with it until warmer weather?
What additional damage could happen?
Some concerns:
More manifold bolts could break in the next few months.
Extra heat in the engine bay affecting plastics, wire insulation, etc.
Lower backpressure to the affected cylinders.
I could live with reduced mileage for a couple months......
I could probably work-around the exhaust in the cab.....
Since the sound is worse at start up (cold) than when it warms up, I assume that the manifold is still changing shape with temperature.
Therefore simply (yeah, right!) replacing the manifold bolts would likely lead to the same failure again, but likely years down the road.
Once I get a manifold off I intend to put the mating face on the surface plate and test for rocking, gaps, etc.
Q2) Would setting it up on the mill and fly-cutting the sealing face help at all if it is still warping?
Is there a heat-treat cycle that they could be run thru to normalize the casting?
I do have a small heat-treat oven, but don't know if the manifolds would fit.
I could get replacement manifolds, but there's really no guarantee that they would be any better (flatter and less likely to warp) than the ones currently on the engine.
I intend to (over) use a high-temp, copper-based anti-seize on all the bolts.
I have all the various "rusted bolt" procedures in mind; penetrating oil, stud remover, oxy-actylene for heat, left-handed drill bits, welding on washer/nut, etc.
I don't think I'll bother with an easy-out ever again, I don't believe they have ever worked for me.
Thanks for any feedback!
Brian
By the way, we need a forum for regular "Automotive Stuff" (not just classic cars, rockets, boats, etc.)