VFD recomendations

Pete301

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Looking for recommendations on a decent VFD. I had an offshore cheap VFD that didn’t end well for me. It ended its life with
a big POP and FLASH. So I’m looking for a better, new one.
Input is 220 single phase and output needs to be 220 3 phase for a 3/4 hp motor on a lathe.
I didn’t like my old VFD because
1) it wasn’t all that enclosed. I’d be happier with a NEMA4 enclosure since it will be mounted fairly close to the lathe and in the line of fire
2)) 14 gauge wire was the biggest it could accept. I need 12 gauge wire for my 3/4 hp motor.
3) it didn’t have screw terminals (the type you wrap a wire around ) for the input or output wires.
My only other need it for it to be able to handle a remote forward stop reverse switch.
I’m looking at a KBAC24D Vfd. Any other recommendations would be appreciated.
Pete
 
Hi Pete,

I have had good results with the DuraPulse GS20 VFD from automation direct. I use mine with the original forward/reverse switch on my Southbend 13 lathe. It has a 1 HP motor. Automation Direct is very helpful with both online information as well as the few times I have had to contact them for application assistance.

Dan
 

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Not too many Nema 4 rated VFD's at at a lower price point. Per above would go with the Automation Direct GS20/21 VFD's as being reliable and affordable. Typical story I hear and have experienced with the cheap offshore VFD's. The KBAC24D is not really suitable for a lathe operation. A 3/4hp motor 3 phase only require 14G wire between the motor and the VFD.
 
All my VFDs have been GE/TECO L510 units. Very good price/performance. I have now installed 6 of them for friends. Not one issue has come up.

The new updated ones have very simple programming, and about 300 optional parameters if you wan to deep dive. The quick start guide can have almost anyone up and running in about an hour, with only very basic electrical experience.
 
Not too many Nema 4 rated VFD's at at a lower price point. Per above would go with the Automation Direct GS20/21 VFD's as being reliable and affordable. Typical story I hear and have experienced with the cheap offshore VFD's. The KBAC24D is not really suitable for a lathe operation. A 3/4hp motor 3 phase only require 14G wire between the motor and the VFD.
Thanks for the lead on this VFD model. I’m liking what I can see about it online. I’ll give them a call on Monday.
I must be wrong about needing a 12 gauge wire because I see many of the manufacturers for this size VFD state 14 gauge as the max.
Still open to any other recommendations, but I do want to have a NEMA 4 enclosure type.
Pete
 
This is how I size lathe 3ph/VFD conversions:

The 3ph motor should be larger than the corresponding 1ph motor that it replaces. This is due to using a vfd: the wiring gets hotter during the acceleration and braking phases. For a 2hp lathe I recommend a 3HP 3ph motor, etc.

For a lathe even using a Hitachi or TECO VFD, I recommend at least 300 watts greater capacity (1/2 HP bigger) so for a 2hp lathe size your VFD for 3HP.

People don't seem to get that the gearing, belts, spindle and chuck (as well as your QCGB) all add a lot of effective mass to the system. This puts a lot of strain on the motor, and even more on the VFD. This is at least in part why your VFD failed.

My go to VFDs are TECO and Hitachi. They are designed with reserve capacity built in. But I still oversize them. They aren't cheap, but they last a lifetime.
 
Do not look for a fancy housing VFD, that limits your choices in increases your expenses.

You do not need to ever see your vfd.

Most can be setup with remote control, 3-wire control gives run, run reverse and stop, this can be controlled with the drum switch, we bent the tabs on ur switch so the stop loop would close before the others.

Some vfd also have slave functions where a variable output can be used to control other things, our AB1300 series has a 4-20 ma output that can be programmed to indicate load or frequency, set to frequency.

Our vfd is in a box under the lathe, drum switch controls lathe, a meter, pot and aster switch located under chip tray.

Added a pilot to the drum to be aware if power on.

Added a foot bar to activate the stop function, the drum switch is above and behind the chuck.
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The KBAC24D is not really suitable for a lathe operation.

Not disagreeing, but I wonder if you could say more. I had a KBAC-24D on a 2 x 72 belt grinder with a 1 HP motor, and ran it that way for a few years (hobbyist use, not full-time in a busy shop). Because if the wimpy motor, I did bog it down fairly frequently, and the protection circuitry on the VFD would kick in, so for all of my intents and purposes, it was fail-safe. Maybe I could have killed it eventually, but I'll never know, because I recently upgraded it to a 2 HP motor and a KBDA-27d. As well as being bigger in size and amps/HP, it's also the newer style with LED display, programmable from the front panel, which is handy. I have the display programmed to show the belt speed in SF/min., just because "why not?" The grinder is now purt nigh unstoppable.

The "washdown" NEMA4 enclosure is utterly immune to dust, grit, swarf as well as water if you want to leave it out in the rain... not that I recommend that.

Anyway, I'm not an expert. I have 5 VFDs now, all KB brand, so I haven't tried the other candidates, but I'm 100% satisfied with the performance, protection, and dust-proofness of the NEMA4 KBs.

My lathe, a 12" swing benchtop with a 1.5 HP motor, uses a KBDF-27d which is not NEMA4, it's open to the air (NEMA1 or IP 20). I didn't build an enclosure for it either, I just mounted it up pretty high and away from any showers of swarf. Been using it that way for 3 years now, no zaps, no smoke. Oops, now I've jinxed it!

I only got the KBDF because it was super cheap on ebay as "open box", so I took a chance on it. So far so good, but if I could afford it, I would go for the KBAC or KBDA models, with the washdown enclosure.

The little KBAC-24D is limited to 1 HP, but OP said his motor is 3/4 horse, right? Do you think the 24D is undersized for that motor? If so is it because of inadequate braking? You can program it to a long deceleration time, which should minimize the threat to the braking resistor, no? Though I suppose someday in a crash you might wish you had faster decel. I'm pretty sure if the VFD attempts and fails to decel the machine in the alloted time, nothing breaks or fizzles, it just stops braking and lets the machine coast to a stop. Maybe not the best for human safety, but at least the VFD is not harmed.

A couple of my VFDs are KBMA-24d, a super cheap model — for a USA-made VFD anyway, still more $ than Chinese, if you buy one new-retail. They're very basic, without a lot of the fancier features, but they've been running my 3/4 HP buffer and my 1 HP drill press just fine. They are NEMA1, but still surprisingly closed-off to grit and swarf, no problems so far in a few years of use, and that's in in the 'dirty' part of my shop where I have grinders. I even got them both used off ebay, with an unknown amount of miles on 'em (and dirt cheap). Very happy with those, for getting the advantages of VFD on a couple of machines where I wouldn't have done it if I had to pay the price of a "real" one.

Not sure if the KBMA is made anymore. It sure looks like a throwback to an earlier era. I'd take it over Chinese any day though. I trust any VFD from KB. Not a stockholder, honest! Since I tend to buy things used, I'm not even a very good customer, KB doesn't get much money from me.

One advantage of sticking with one brand is familiarity (ease of programming), and to some extent, spare parts. As in you can cannibalize the less-essential machine to keep the more-essential one running while you order a replacement.

Speaking of ease of programming, I find the KB manuals to be written by a native English speaker, and pretty easy to follow. I assume the better brands like Hitachi, TECO etc are good too, but I don't know. I keep hearing horror stories about the documentation on the Chinese though. Maybe that's rumors? I have no first-hand experience with them. I just hear a lot of stories of them burning up.
 
I have owned several of the KB Electronics VFD's and in almost all cases they got replaced because of poor performance and lack of programming. They are OK for simple installs where one wants a sealed unit like a grinder or drill press, but they are expensive and extremely limited from a programming and input control. The KBMA is not NEMA 4. The KB models you are mentioning are a less than optimal choices for a lathe, that is based in 100's of VFD installs on various machines using a wide range of VFD models/manufactures. About the only KB Electronics VFD model that I would have considered is the KBDF-24D which is NEMA 1, it is no longer available and the same price as the GS21x-21P0. If one is looking at simple reliable drives the Invertek and Lenze has NEMA 4 VFD's that are very basic, durable/reliable, but extremely limited inputs if you want anything more than a basic run forward/reverse run command. Doesn't really matter where it is made these days, most likely almost everything is made outside in the US, some may be assembled in the US. It is more about the VFD design and the components then where it is made. Automation Direct VFD's are known for there easily read manuals/technical help, are fully functioning (progamable) drives, are durable at a reasonable cost. My understanding is the VFD they sell are versions of other manufactures VFD's made to their specifications. The GS20/30 models are easily programmed. Still, the choice/recommendation of the VFD depends on the application specifics and the budget.

The Teco L510 is a decent VFD and a simple install, there is no NEMA 4 version, it does not have provisions for an externall braking resistor which is often needed if you want quick stopping on a lathe. The Teco E510-201-H-U/E510-201-HN4R-U does have provisions for an external braking resistor, there is a NEMA 1 and NEMA 4 versions. Teco's VFDs tend to be quite reliable and straight forward installs. I just helped another person that was installing a Teco E510 on his PM-1340 lathe with the VFD basic install instructions that has been previously posted.

One can go with a NEMA 1 VFD in a separate enclosure, but there is the addtional costs of the enclosure, the interanl volume should be at least 7X that of the VFD volume and at least 4" space above and below the VFD. Plastic enclosure typically require additional venting either passive or with secondary fan cooling. So much more space is needed for the enclosurer and costs, but may be a prefered alternative if one wants to add things like a braking resistor, power switch, fusing, etc.

Your best bet is to use remote switches for the run commands, they only need to be able to handle a few mA at 24VDC, so simple switch gear can be used, I do not recommend using used switches that are designed for higher voltage/amperages as the contacts can be poor. A remote speed pot is also desirable. You need to think of safety in the way that the controls operate to prevent restart when powered up/reactivation. Possible provisions for jog, E-Stop, etc.
 
Looking for recommendations on a decent VFD. I had an offshore cheap VFD that didn’t end well for me. It ended its life with
a big POP and FLASH. So I’m looking for a better, new one.
Input is 220 single phase and output needs to be 220 3 phase for a 3/4 hp motor on a lathe.
I didn’t like my old VFD because
1) it wasn’t all that enclosed. I’d be happier with a NEMA4 enclosure since it will be mounted fairly close to the lathe and in the line of fire
2)) 14 gauge wire was the biggest it could accept. I need 12 gauge wire for my 3/4 hp motor.
3) it didn’t have screw terminals (the type you wrap a wire around ) for the input or output wires.
My only other need it for it to be able to handle a remote forward stop reverse switch.
I’m looking at a KBAC24D Vfd. Any other recommendations would be appreciated.
Pete
Just purchased a Fuji electric VFD for my surface grinder. Have not set it up yet but it does have outstanding reviews. I have a teco on my lathe which has been a workhorse
 
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