Used Hardinge?

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DMS

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I have been contemplating an upgrade to my existing lathe (a 7x14 import) for some time. It has served me well, but I find myself working on larger projects, and this little guy just doesn't have enough "oomph" sometimes. There is a constant battle between "used American" and "new import", and I have toggled back and forth. Recently I have seen a couple used Hardinge lathes for sale on Craigslist in my area. Price (where listed) is comparable to a new import of a slightly larger size (13x40). I know Hardinge has a great reputation for accuracy. I am a little concerned about getting parts if the thing breaks down. That being said, it they seem like a great lathe, and I wanted to get the opinion of others, especially owners/users.

I am also wondering about chucks, as most of these lathes seem to have 5c collets installed. I haven't seen new chucks available to fit, would I have to machine my own adapter plate? If I go out to look at one of these machines, is there anything I should keep an eye on (known problems on these lathes). Lastly, what would you pay for a machine like this (I believe the ones I have seen are HLV lates, with collet closers, and threading gearbox).

DMS
 
Besides here I would see if there's a Hardinge group on Yahoo Groups. I don't know about Hardinge but they have a good rep, IIRC. I'm going through the new-Asian vs old-American debate myself. For a beginner or someone unfamiliar with the old American machines my smarter side tells me to buy new Asian. Buying one of the "better" Asian lathes (Grizzly, Jet, etc) there's a better chance of getting something that will work as it should and negate a lot of the worrying a beginner might feel about his machine leading him down a wrong learning path. With old, used machinery the beginner or someone unfamiliar with it may not be able to catch all the subtle things that may be wrong with the machine, let alone knowing how to fix them. Sure, the Internet's a great suppository ;) of information but that only gets you so far. I love old machinery. It looks like machinery should. I think about my father and uncles who worked on machinery "back in the day" and wonder what they'd say about using an Asian machine that looks like a box with levers and switches.....no life to them. However, if I get lucky I'll be able to find a good used lathe that won't need so much rehab'ing but how long do I wait to find that machine? That's the $1M question.
 
There is a Yahoo group for Hardinge owners, though not a lot of traffic over there. I recently picked up on old Hardinge HLV in good shape with a nearly full set of 5c collets. I've been picking up missing sized collets off Ebay.

The Hardinge uses a taper lock chuck which can be installed right over the top of the internal 5c closing system. I don't have one yet, but as I understand it the chuck has a 4 degree taper on the back end. It slides into a key way and locks by turning. Supposedly both very simple and VERY accurate. Again, I don't have one for my HLV yet so I'm only sharing what I have read.

Of course turning anything round, square, or hexagonal is easy with collets.

Or you can get a small 3 or 4 jaw chuck with mounts directly in the 5 c closer. I have one and it's not bad at all... accurate to about .0015" tir at .250".

Hope this helps,
Harry
 
Hi DMS,
I believe Hardinge are still manufacturing today.
Depending on the model would probably affect availability of parts. Have you looked at any of the lathes listed? If they have been flogged to death you may be in for a hard time, however most older lathes of any brand still turn pretty well for our needs. You are correct that they are a quality brand and given the opportunity I wouldnt even blink before picking one up if the price was right. I would even pay a premium if I thought it was worth it. Only you can make the final decision, but if I was in your place that lathe would be sitting in my shed.
A chuck or 2 is going to cost you a few dollars but in view of what a Hardinge offers then I think it would be worthwhile.

Cheers Phil
 
I'm trying to get the guy to give me a price, I don't want to waste my time looking at it if it's out of my price range. I have seen a couple others pass by for between 3 and 4k. Which is within my price range, and one that the guys was asking about 10k for. Definitely outside my price range.

I would definitely like a chuck, mainly a 4 jaw for doing offset work (which I do, but not frequently)

Do you find yourself wanting a chuck Harry, or do you enjoy working with the 5c collets (I have not worked with 5c collets myself, just R8 and ER)?
 
Hardinge is very much alive and well. Could probably find the tools (chucks) you want. They are not cheap. 5c collets are extremely handy and very habit forming. Your chuck size might be limiting on a Hardinge depending on the size work you do. I'd be very sure everything works well on it if it's selling for $3 grand. There are some very good imports, used, selling for that kind of money 3 or 4 thou. It would be a good idea to get familiar with the different Hardinge lathes (older ones) if you go to see it. Good Luck
dickr
 
If you can score an HLV grab it! We have them at work and they are sweet! They do lack power though. But, they're designed for extreme accuracy, not roughing. My 12X36 Grizzly has vastly more oomph, but is nowhere near as accurate. Want your have your cake and eat it too? A Monarch 10EE. Almost as accurate as the Hardinge, but has super power. I'd love one, but have no idea how I would get it into my shop.

John
 
DMS said:
Do you find yourself wanting a chuck Harry, or do you enjoy working with the 5c collets (I have not worked with 5c collets myself, just R8 and ER)?
Click to expand...

Honestly I've only had the machine for a few weeks and haven't used it enough to know. Been too busy with other projects and honey-do's. :)

Harry
 
I have a 1964 HLVH. The government owned it,and I think they replaced all the lead screws on it. It has some VERY expensive relays(a LARGE number of them)in the cabinet under the headstock end. I HOPE none ever go bad!! It does hum a bit in reverse,which is a weak relay. Those things cost hundreds each. The mechanical variable speed drives are pretty straight forward,but there are 2 Bodine motors,one on the carriage,and 1 in the variable speed. They would cost bucks if I HAD to buy them from Hardinge. So far so good,though. I love using the HLVH. VERY user friendly. Everything is variable speed,so it's easy to adjust feed/speed till a squeal or surface vibration is stopped. Turns beautifully smooth surfaces,though maybe not as nice as a 10EE Monarch. But,the EE's are very complicated to work on if the drive goes bad.
 
I bought my HLV-H new in the mid 80's and it is capable of incredible precision and a joy to use. If you are looking for a lathe with more "oomph" though, it may not be your best choice. The HLV-H has a one horsepower motor and belt drive so it's fairly easy to stall when trying to remove a lot of stock, but if you are looking for absolute precision, it is the best out there by far.

Parts are still available, as well as the lathe, but the prices are in the stratosphere. I had to replace one of those relays that George referred to and it was very painful, but in 25 years of regular use, that's the only service it has required outside of normal maintenance.

You will definitely need a three or six jaw scroll chuck and a four jaw independent chuck. While the 5C collets are nice, especially Hardinge 5C collets, they are only good for small parts. The spindle nose on the HLV-H is a special Hardinge design and has a 4º taper with a locking pin. I've made a couple myself, but the taper is critical so it wasn't an easy task.

If you buy one used, make sure all the tooling you require, like taper attachments, collet closers, chucks, and faceplates comes with it because purchasing it separately will be extremely painful.

Tom
 
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