TTS - Should I Do It?

[MontanaAardvark]

Back in April, once I got my G0704 CNC conversion finished, I posted a thread about ideas for ease of use. Several of us got into a discussion about the TTS. I ended up putting that on the back burner as a couple of summer vacation trips were coming and it seemed like there was no rush to get a TTS running. I got my Z-axis touch plate working (also part of that discussion), built a couple of tooling plates (ditto), spent entirely too much time on my GB-22 (single shot .22 pistol that never did work right) and now that the trip to see the eclipse is over, started playing with thoughts of the TTS again.

One of the things I had concluded about the TTS is that it really only improves the speed with which you change tools. I can very easily convince myself that since I'm not trying to make money from my shop, that speed doesn't matter. Why do I say this? Every tool I put in my spindle has the same center. Once I define where (0,0) is , the only thing left to zero is Z, and that's the easiest thing to zero - especially with my touch plate. Even without the touch plate, bumping Z down .001 at a time until I touch a feeler gage or the top of the work, is easy with my hand controller. So the TTS saves me the time of finding zero for all tools, since I can put every tool in a tool table in Mach3 with its length offset. That figures to be a minute per tool change, but let's say it's five minutes. So what?

What else does the TTS buy me?

The TTS is based around a special 3/4" R8 collet that is ground flat across its top. Little Machine Shop has a description and picture here. In that original post, Spumco had posted a link to eBay seller cncmachinetool as a source of parts that interchange with some TTS parts. I went there and found some 3/4 R8 collets, so I thought I'd get one and see if I could cut or grind it flat so that it looked like the TTS "master". This is what I got. It's already ground flat:


I haven't put this in my spindle yet and tried to make any measurements of TIR, or even make sure it fits, but I really don't doubt that. It seems just like the 3/4" collet that I got in a set when I bought the Grizz, except for being ground flat and not slightly domed toward the center. I did try one of my 3/4 tools in it and the opening seems just right.

It looks like it would work as a TTS collet to me, but I don't have one to compare to. Does anyone with experience have any input on this?

This is probably too rambling, but I'm a hobby guy and it just seems like it adds a lot of expense and complication, all of which serves only to get projects done a little faster. Am I missing something?

 

[DAT510]

At my previous job we had the TTS system. The only difference with the TTS collet was it sit flush or slightly below the face of the spindle. This was so the TTS tool holders could index of the face of the spindle, giving a repeatable surface to index the tooling to.

The TTS tooling also had a "cupped washer" to insure the tool holders indexed off the spindle surface and not the face of the collet.

So if this collet sits flush or slightly recessed on your machine, I would think you should be good to go.

 

[MontanaAardvark]

At my previous job we had the TTS system. The only difference with the TTS collet was it sit flush or slightly below the face of the spindle. This was so the TTS tool holders could index of the face of the spindle, giving a repeatable surface to index the tooling to.

The TTS tooling also had a "cupped washer" to insure the tool holders indexed off the spindle surface and not the face of the collet.

View attachment 242468

So if this collet sits flush or slightly recessed on your machine, I would think you should be good to go.

Thanks! That's very helpful.

With a 3/4" end mill in there, the bottom of the collet sticks out of the spindle a LONG way. About .075. With nothing in the collet, it closes enough to retract all the way into the spindle and be recessed.

Too bad. I don't think the R8 collet fits in my lathe chuck.

 

[DAT510]

Maybe someone with the TTS system can measure the depth of the "cup", which would tell you if .075" stick out would fit? Unfortunately I no longer have access to the system I used. Or I'd do it.

 

[jbolt]

Maybe someone with the TTS system can measure the depth of the "cup", which would tell you if .075" stick out would fit? Unfortunately I no longer have access to the system I used. Or I'd do it.

All TTS holders measure .080" at the recess. With the recess I can use the TTS holders in my HD drill press with a standard R8 collet.

I like the TTS system a lot when combined with a pneumatic draw bar. Works best with a power draw bar. I have to be careful when I use them in my drill press (manual draw bar) to not loosen the collet too much or the tool holder will drop out.

On my mill I have a 3-stack 4" pneumatic cylinder/ Belleville washer system which is barely enough to keep most end mills from pulling out under heavy cuts. A 4-stack would be perfect.

Here is a pic of the tools I am using for a part I am making. I could have used a few more 1/4" drill chucks and ER-20 holders. Once setup and the tool tables entered its a breeze to run the part. I would go nuts having to use a touch plate on the mill. I use a touch plate on my router but I don't use nearly as many tools on that machine and there is no coolant to deal with.

 

[RJSakowski]

I think TTS is one of the best things since sliced bread. I have been using it for almost six years.

I initially bought the system with my Tormach 770 but a soon bought a second 3/4" R8 collet and ground the face flat so I could use the TTS system on my mill/drill as well. The one difference between the Tormach R8 collet and others is that it has a second keyway. Presumably, this was done for balancing purposes since the PCNC770 is capable of 10K rpm. The amount of grind is not critical as long as the TTS tool holders contact the spindle face first. My mill/drill spindle face had no runout so I was good to go. If there is runout, Tormach has a white paper which describes truing the face.

Aside from the convenience of rapid tool change, I like the improved accuracy and the ability to set up tooling away from the mill. I use a digital dial indicator to set my machine z axis reference and zero my height gage to the indicator. I can then replace a tool and measure its height to determine my tool offset.

Another big advantage is the ability to conveniently run multiple parts without the need for multi-part fixturing. I can run the full tool sequence on a part, pull it and replace it with another piece of stock, and run the machining again.

 

[benster]

I'm a big fan of it, especially for multi tool jobs. I keep my most commonly used tools as numbers 1 thru 6 and it makes program writing faster and less error prone since I don't have to make sure Linux CNC has the right tool numbers set each time.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[MontanaAardvark]

All TTS holders measure .080" at the recess. With the recess I can use the TTS holders in my HD drill press with a standard R8 collet.

That makes it sound like the collets I have would work. The amount the collet was sticking out was closer to .072 which would be fine with a .080 recess. The animation from Tormach makes it look like the face of the collet is unimportant and what really matters is where that cupped washer, as DAT510 described it, contacts the spindle around the perimeter of the collet.

It seems like something like the way you're set up is the way to go, Jay. Not a tool holder sitting ready for every cutter in the tool box, but the 8 or 10 most used, including a few common drill bits and maybe a couple of center drills. Maybe the exact tools in the holders change a little depending on the exact job being done.

Because of my CNC Sherline, most of my cutters are standardized on 3/8" shanks, regardless of what the cutter is. I have 1/8" and 1/2" cutters with a 3/8 shank.

 

[MontanaAardvark]

?? Not sure how, but the very last sentence I had there went away. The thing about the 3/8 shank tools being standard was followed by. I could get tool holders and a handful of 3/8" collets

 

[jbolt]

I generally use the TTS set screw tool holders for tools with Weldon flats and the ER collet holders for carbide tools or tools with larger than 1/2" shank. I'm finding you can't have enough drill chucks. I have (4) 1/4", (2) 3/8") and (2) 1/2" and I plan on getting two more of each. Same for the Er-20 collet holders.

I don't use the keyless chucks as they don't grip as tight as a keyed chuck.

I have about a dozen tools that are permanently setup.