To rebuild or NOT (lathe)

[SE18]

I purchased a rebuild kit (gaskets, wicks, springs and renovating guide) for my 9A SB 1943, book is from Ilion (copyright 2011).

I went thru the book and as a beginner, it seemed pretty intimidating, not to mention the $$$ I'd have to spend for pin punches, snap ring pliers (inner and outer), spanner wrench, spanner bit, strap wrench, dial indicator, tap, enamel paint (if painting) and not to mention things that need replacing, tapers, bronze bushings and so on, maybe even new belts. Just getting the tapers out of their holes seems to be a challenge.

However, OTOH, I'm thinking there are things that need cleaning and replacing and deferring this may result in bigger problems later, and it would be best to suck it up and pay and get to work,

What do you think?

Also, how do you get replacement tapers (there are about 13 of them, holding various parts in place). I'm thinking I should first use the lathe to make these tapers before tearing the machine apart, unless they can be purchased from somewhere. I understand it is hard sometimes removing them and they often need to be drilled out.

I'd hate to begin the renovation and end up destroying stuff. Has any newbee to machining ever done it and regretted it or been thankful they did?

 

[Old Iron]

If you mean the taper pins holding gears and hand wheels on unless there broken they don't need to be replaced. Just put something behind them because they mite fly always across your shop.


Paul

 

[SE18]

thanks guys, so I'll dive in and start, probably this weekend. Come to think of it, it's for hobby use anyway so there's no need to rush; thanks for the encouragement; guess that's all I needed to get my butt in gear

 

[Redirish]

No problem with the taper pins, they usually are fairly easy to remove by smacking the small end with a punch. As for finding replacements I got a bunch of them from MSC a few years ago, very inexpensive. Also have reamers up to #7 I think, will have to look. Am just finishing putting my SB 9A back together, have had it for 20 years and finally decided to repaint it, and am replacing felts, crossfeed nut, and tumbler gears. Gears are still good, but I have new ones I got from SB right after I got the lathe, so decided to use them. Nothing too difficult about what you are doing, just takes time.:biggrin:

 

[Tony Wells]

For a beginner, the main decision seems to be the most difficult. It's not always a question of could I, but perhaps should I? Unless or until you are familiar with machine performance, and your realistic needs for a like-new machine, how can you determine whether or not a machine will fill your needs with something between a wipedown and a complete teardown and rebuild? Of course, many people can rightly argue that the rebuild of a machine is a rewarding part of this hobby in itself, and I agree with that, but I have the tools and time to do it. I just don't have the need or desire at this point.

It is not unlike looking at an engine in a car or truck. It might be that a new water pump and a set of plugs will get you from point A to point B just fine for a long time, and perhaps that is all you want or need. Then again, you may have a yen for all the performance and appearance of a brand new engine in the vehicle. Only you can make that call. Rebuilding a machine tool can be intimidating, and for good reason. It does take some specialized knowledge, and can take a marginally usable machine and make it a pile of parts that can be immensely frustrating. For a first machine, I don't think I can in all good conscience recommend it. Too much can go wrong, and nothing is more discouraging than beating your head against a problem that you created yourself.

I don't mean to say that you can't do it. Many people can, and have. It's with help from friends and resources online that people who haven't touched a wrench succeed with tasks such as this. It's just something that should be carefully thought out. Overall, without even seeing the machine under discussion, I'd say just repair first. Get it running, make a few parts to see what it really needs to fill your requirements, then decide about a total rebuild.

Perhaps a few pictures could help us all advise you a little better.

 

[SE18]

Hi Tony, here's photos of it before I moved it from NJ to VA about 3 weeks ago. I set it up on a new bench (old one too big to move) and leveled it and turned it on the ensure it's running. That's about it, besides buying oils, but I haven't touched it yet, as I'm trying to read up on what to do next.

Maybe then I'll just play with it until something breaks

 

[Phil3]

You are in EXACTLY the same boat I was around September 2010. I knew next to nothing about machining, much less a lathe. But, I found a lathe just like yours (Southbend, Model A), except mine has a 4-1/2 long bed. With the help of a friend already familiar with the SB, I decided to completely rebuild it. I probably could have used it first, but elected not too, as I wanted to take best care of it, with clean lube, elimination of old swarf, etc. I got the rebuild book, felts, etc.

The book (if the same one as shown on eBay) is good enough to allow you to do this yourself. It is not perfect however. I am generally quite cautious on such things, but if you are reasonably mechanically competent, you can do this. Some parts of the book are not that clear, but people here, including myself, can help out. The gearbox is perhaps the most difficult to fuss with. My friend did not do something exactly right and I took it back apart and once I did that, it was pretty easy. It LOOKS intimadating and can be, but it did not take long for that to go away. The carriage and all the gears, along with the clutch for engaging feeds, may present some challenges, but follow the book. And spend some time looking at it, working, and understanding HOW it works. This will give you an advantage and is good to know so you can know your machine. I can give you a tip on getting the main spindle out of the headstock. The tapered pins CAN be really stuck, and they may need a substantial whack to dislodge. Some of mine did. Make sure you hit the right end! Proper tools are essential, but a quality deadblow hammer, punches, etc., are needed anyway in a shop.

Take photos of what you are working on if unsure of getting it back together properly. The areas that presented me with the most difficulty were:

1) Disassembling the drive pulley and shaft. Hardened gunk really gave me a hard time when trying to withdraw the shaft. I did not expect this to be a problem.
2) The spindle did not want to come out easily as it is a tight fit on a big bull gear (think that is what it is called). I used some threaded rod and a piece of plastic pipe with washers and a nut to press the shaft out. No hammering the spindle this way.
3) Some of the tapered pins in the gearbox and the carriage were a pain, but as my friend demonstrated, I was not hitting them hard enough.
4) Cleaning! This just takes time. I did this during the winter, and kneeling on concrete, using solvent, was just not pleasant.

I did not repaint. It looked OK as it was. Worn, but perfectly usable. I used three lubes, Mobil Vactra No.2 Medium, Penzoil Syncromesh for the gearbox, and Mobil 10W spindle oil. I used the Syncromesh as it is close to what SB originally spec'd for the lathe. Frankly, I would not use the grease for the backgear as many have done, and as the book suggests. This requires fitting a grease fitting, grease does stick to chips, whereas oil flows and can wash away any contaminants.

All this said, it probably would not be a bad idea to use the lathe a bit, and then overhaul it. This assumes that nothing needs repair immediately.

I have included a pic of my lathe so you can see how similar our two machines are.

Phil

 

[Redirish]

Phil3, your lathe looks like a twin to mine. Good restoration job.:biggrin:

 

[sic semper tyrannis]

I just redid my SB9a a couple of months ago with the same book and kit.

It is a bit intimidating, but not hard.

If you are really worried do the gear train and spindle first. They are pretty easy to do.

Just unbolt the gearbox when you clean up the bed and head stock.

Then you can reinstall the gearbox, run the lathe and rebuild it later.

The taper pins can be tricky but make SURE you are punching from the narrow end and back them up if you can. I found putting a little blue on them and measuring them helped.

The reassembly was a bit of a pain, but then you get it all lined up and it almost falls together.

You can get the grease at harbor freight and there is a guy in centreville va who sells the oil you need by the pint.

I used rustoleum machinery paint and have been happy with it.

I am in Richmond if you have questions!

Ric

 

[12bolts]

Hi David,
does the lathe need a rebuild, or do you just want to do a rebuild as a project.? How extensive do you plan to be with the rebuild?
You seem overly concerned about the taper pins. In my experience they usually come out reasonably easily, provided you aren't smacking them in the wrong direction! If the taper pin has done its job properly and hasnt been overloaded then they are generally re-useable. Especially in places like the ecentrics for the back gears and the belt tensioners behind the idler pulley. These are put under no load, all they do is correctly locate the parts in relation to one another, and should be in perfect, (if not rusted) reuseable condition.
You can also approach it in stages. For instance, pull the carriage off and have a go at that by itself. Take heaps of pics, ( to aid reassembly), or even just remove the compound and topslide from the saddle. Strip it all down, give it a really good clean and oil and put it back together. Thats a couple of hours, maybe, even if you just do it for the exercise without replacing parts. You may find that something is worn and needs to be replaced, now you can make or find the part and still use the lathe in the meantime.
Plenty of knowledge available here if you get stuck. Take pictures, post em up, you are sure to get half a dozen answers quick smart.

Like Mayhem posted,
I am going from this


to, (so far), this,


with a bit of this on the way,


cheers Phil