The case for TouchDRO in 2022?

[axa88]

Hey TouchDRO users... I was wondering if anyone might summarize for me the case of using Touch DRO these days vs the deals on prepacked Chinese DRO systems.

Ill start by giving the premise that I am a simple user that while using the occasional advanced feature, center finding, Bolt pattern, i primarily want to just know my coordinates and want a reliable system at the best price possible.
And where im coming from as an electronics and software engineer, my last machines had a custom DIY system I desighed much like Touch DRO but using an ARM Cortex-M7 core over a blutooth connection to an android app, in fact inspired by the oriignal DIY Touch DRO.

That was great fun and all but the occasional OS hiccups, blutooth pairing issues, and my unfortunate selection of capacities scales, made the system a bit of a pita on occasion... So right now i just want a system that is:
- easy to use
- not has features but they are USEFUL features beyond simple coordinates (center finding, tool offsets, bolt patters)
- and most of all stable and just works 24/7/365.


And now that it doesn't seem that Touch DRO is that much of a deal anymore. For example the somewhat popular run of the mill 2 axis DRO from Vevor can be had for LESS than 150$ delivered.

VEVOR Digital Readout, 2 Axis, DRO Display with 250mm and 1000mm Travel Length Precision Linear Scale, for Mill Milling Machine | VEVOR US

Shop VEVOR Digital Readout, 2 Axis, DRO Display with 250mm and 1000mm Travel Length Precision Linear Scale, for Mill Milling Machine at lowest price, 2-day delivery, 30-day returns. Shop now at VEVOR.

www.vevor.com

While the latest version of Touch DRO hardware with housing being 130$ alone, add the same 2 scales and a cheap android tablet and your already over 300$

DRO Adapter for Glass and Magnetic Scales V2

(You cant even buy the slightly cheaper 2 axis version anymore)

Ive never used either the TouchDRO nor one of these cheap Chinese DROs but ive heard good about both.
What im asking is simply, given the framing above (DIY been there done that. Reliability is key), what about the TouchDRO would you say makes it a system that id want to pay double vs the alternatives?

All advise welcome

I should add that im looking for advice on DROs for both Mill and Lathe DRO

 

[ycroosh]

Disclaimer - I am biased (for obvious reasons)

Well, it's sort of like why would one buy a Tesla when 1980's Russian Lada is cheaper and gets from point A to point B.
I guess it's a complicated question. When I first started this project, the goal was to make a cheap DRO (in 2012 glass scales were still pretty expensive). Today I often tell people that if they are looking for a "budget" version, they should get a Chinese DRO and in the future, they can upgrade to TouchDRO.

With TouchDRO there is a complete DIY option (a few, actually). The schematics and firmware are available on the website. If you go that route, you can build the adapter for about $20 + many people already have a tablet or an old phone. Obviously, reliability is as good as the person building it.

Side note: capacitive scales SUCK. I added a lot of "workarounds", but I can only polish that turd only so much. I have three TouchDRO setups in my garage with glass/magnetic scales, and the things just work. I can leave in the middle of a project, come back a month later, and pick up without needing to re-indicate the part (i leave my adapters plugged in 24/7 and the older one is 7 years old). For what it's worth, I don't hear about any issues from the customers who got glass scale setups, but I get at least one "my iGaging scales are having XYZ problem" email every week.

Pre-made adapters are not intended to be cheap. The boxed adapter for glass scales costs $130 because it's made to IPC Class II standard at ISO900x facility, I use name-brand components and quality gold-plated PCBs, I inspect each board and test it twice and if the rare case when something goes wrong (regardless of the time frame), I will fix or replace the unit.
If you go with this option, it's DIY in the sense that you have to put together the box and plug in some connector terminals.

If you are comparing off-the-shelf Chinese DRO vs. pre-made TouchDRO adapter + Samsung tablet, it will be more expensive (by far) but you get MUCH better reliability of components (my failure rate is <0.1% for the adapters) and a name-brand tablet is designed and built much better than your run of the mill cheap DRO head (there is a reason they are so cheap).

BlueTooth (when done right) is as close to bulletproof as it can get. The protocol has layers of check and redundancy, and the issues that people run into are almost 100% related to crappy implementation (i.e. cheap devices use cheap components and bad firmware). ESP32 chip is BlueTooth certified and is VERY robust and reliable.

Now, with this out of the way:
1. You get much more flexibility with TouchDRO. The system works with a mix of scales (you can even use capacitive and glass/magnetic scales together) and resolutions (each input is calibrated separately. The display is
2. You get more input options (up to 4 axis inputs, with axis summing), + tachometer + probe (support coming in a month or two)
3. You get (in my humble opinion) a much more intuitive and powerful user interface. (compare adding or recalling a sub-datum in a traditional DRO vs. TouchDRO, etc.).
4. You get practically unlimited storage for sub-datums, tool libraries, etc.
5. You get updates (although the new app has been long-coming, so mia maxima culpa. I'm working on it as we speak). I.e. there is no planned obsolescence. For example, the newest version of firmware is compatible with the very first unit I ever sold. It takes a $10 device to update it, or I will do it for you if you cover the return shipping (which I've done for many people). The new app will work on Android devices going back to version 4.2.

If you want more details on the stuff that is coming in the next app version, look at the last three blog posts here: https://www.yuriystoys.com/. For example, here is the new UI:

In essence, the benefit is that you are getting a system that can do things that many high-end DROs can barely do (in the current version; the new version goes a bit further). The downside is that I don't sell complete turn-key packages, so you don't get a plug-and-play experience.
As far as do you really need this, or can you live with the 90's-style unit, it's really up to your preferences). I know people who are very happy with their flip phones; I love my Galaxy S21 Ultra...).

Hope this helps (or at least provides comedic relief)
Yuriy

 

[acruxksa]

Z axis summing.

That and I like the ui way better than the other options.

Also doesn't hurt that the developer is active here and the system is constantly being improved. Not sure you can say that with the other options you mentioned.

I haven't priced this stuff out in quite awhile, but back when I was looking at it, I don't recall the difference being that large. Although, I never factored the cost of a tablet in because they are literally everywhere and nearly commodity priced. Even an old phone would probably get you up and running.

I personally started out with a 5yr old kindle fire, but recently upgraded to a Samsung a7 lite. Only reason was I hated the ads on the kindle fire, it ran TouchDRO just fine.

 

[axa88]

comment redacted

 

[axa88]

Z axis summing.

I do like me some Z axis summing... though i would have thought most any run of the mill 4 axis systems would have 2 axis summing, no?

That and I like the ui way better than the other options.

It certainly is pretty, but how does it do with dirty oily hands? or ones with latex gloves...
Theres something nice about a tactile blister button that doesnt care about being dirty and gives positive feedback...

 

[acruxksa]

I do like me some Z axis summing... though i would have thought most any run of the mill 4 axis systems would have 2 axis summing, no?



It certainly is pretty, but how does it do with dirty oily hands? or ones with latex gloves...
Theres something nice about a tactile blister button that doesnt care about being dirty and gives positive feedback...

Yes, but you're comparing it to a 2 axis system

 

[ycroosh]

I do like me some Z axis summing... though i would have thought most any run of the mill 4 axis systems would have 2 axis summing, no?



It certainly is pretty, but how does it do with dirty oily hands? or ones with latex gloves...
Theres something nice about a tactile blister button that doesnt care about being dirty and gives positive feedback...

I haven't had any problems with dirty hands or gloves. I do agree about the switches (I love my mechanical keyboards). That said, there is a huge difference between good tactile membrane switches and the stuff that comes with Chinese devices. The panel on my laze cutter laster for less than a year before the "Run" button quit working completely and the "Origin" button started sticking.

 

[axa88]

Lots to digest here, thanks for chiming in.
I can appreciate the quality standard, hassle of failing equipment is amplified as you get more and more busy...
In fact after reading the TouchDro site I wasnt aware of that rather impressive failure rate, nor stability of the system, there is a sort of (non)survivor bias on the forums as most people come to complain about problems...

Perhaps im just sore i didnt get in on the recent sale...

 

[ycroosh]

Z axis summing.

That and I like the ui way better than the other options.

Also doesn't hurt that the developer is active here and the system is constantly being improved. Not sure you can say that with the other options you mentioned.

I haven't priced this stuff out in quite awhile, but back when I was looking at it, I don't recall the difference being that large. Although, I never factored the cost of a tablet in because they are literally everywhere and nearly commodity priced. Even an old phone would probably get you up and running.

It's definitely more expensive than a Chinese DRO. Chinese DROs got much cheaper (the system in the link the OP posted is $140-ish), and TouchDRo stuff got more expensive. There is no way I can compete on price, period. Even if I cut the corners and then cut the corners on what's left, I still can't beat Chinese imports.
I pretty much gave up on trying to race to the bottom. I'm betting on the fact that I can make the system convenient enough that enough people will be willing to buy my unit to make it worth my while. If not, I will open-source everything, and go do something else.

I personally started out with a 5yr old kindle fire, but recently upgraded to a Samsung a7 lite. Only reason was I hated the ads on the kindle fire, it ran TouchDRO just fine.

 

[axa88]

I haven't had any problems with dirty hands or gloves. I do agree about the switches (I love my mechanical keyboards). That said, there is a huge difference between good tactile membrane switches and the stuff that comes with Chinese devices. The panel on my laze cutter laster for less than a year before the "Run" button quit working completely and the "Origin" button started sticking.

And the button silkscreen/labels wear off...