Surface Finish Issues with CNC Lathe

JLeather

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I'm just getting familiar with my CNC-converted South Bend "Fourteen" 14x40 lathe. I'm having some strange issues with surface finish. It's not that the the finish isn't smooth, but there are regular waves in it. Basically the diameter of a finished part wanders in and out .001"-.002" every 1/4" of length or so. It's most exaggerated on a high-rake cutter (like for aluminum). I've included a picture of a pair of aluminum parts I turned (about 1" OD) with a nice CCGT high-rake aluminum insert. It left a smooth finish, but you can see the color striations which correspond to a diameter variance. The dark bands are lower diameter, about .001"-.002" smaller (diametral) than the light bands. Even another light pass yielded the same pattern. I only recently acquired this machine and most of the converting and setup work was already done. I've written the previous owner and he never encountered this before, so it's likely something that happened during the move or setup at my house.

Last night I had had enough and I took the lathe partially apart to investigate this. It seems to be something to do with the leadscrew, leadscrew bearing, or leadscrew ballnut. The striations turn out to be the same pitch as the leadscrew. It turns out that if I loosen up all the bolts that hold the headstock-end leadscrew support bearing in place the striations go away. This leads to other problems, however, so I can't run it that way. I cut a few inches of test bar (aluminum) while tightening and loosening those bearing screws and you could actually see the problem start and stop. Tightening the upper screws on the bearing support make it worst. I believe that every revolution the leadscrew is applying slight upward pressure on the saddle. That's why it makes no difference what the feedrate is. It's a mechanical issue. I've temporarily reached a happy medium with the bearing support screws just snugged (and one of them removed entirely) and the lathe is cutting a mostly un-noticeable pattern that I can polish out.

It seems to me that there are a couple possible causes for this. I can't really tear the lathe down until I'm done with the current project (a Christmas present) but for now I'm bouncing ideas around. I thought that one of the three bearings in the leadscrew system had to float? You can't build it aligned well enough to run 3 fixed bearings, right? Does anyone know if it's the left support bearing that is typically supposed to float, or is it the ball nut that's supposed to float? It could be that whichever bearing is supposed to float has stopped floating; possibly gotten a big chip lodged in it or a little surface rust. I thought that the ballnut was supposed to be the one that floated axially to isolate the saddle from the leadscrew system? Unfortunately the more likely culprit is a bent leadscrew, probably during moving the lathe, that is exceeding the axial float limitations of the system.

I can't quite figure out how the leadscrew comes apart on this lathe. I looked at it last night and it has me a bit stumped. The servo motor comes off readily (I had it off last night) but I can't figure out how the left side bearing carrier comes apart. It looks like I have to drop the leadscrew, apron, and both bearing carriers off in a lump and then take it apart after that. A job that big will have to wait until after Christmas for sure. The leadscrew is driven by a nice poly coupler, BTW, and I didn't see anything wrong with it so that doesn't appear to be the problem.

CIMG6014.jpg
 
Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm expecting to find when I get a chance to pull it all apart. Was hoping maybe it could be something else. I would imagine that a leadscrew could be straightened enough to be used again? Some careful time spent with a press, some delrin blocks to protect the threads, and a long machinist's straight edge?

EDIT - Just thinkng out loud, but I think it looked like the holes that mounted the entire leadscrew drive system (servo, thrust bearing, etc) were slotted for adjustment. I wonder if it's possible that during transport that entire assembly was bumped out of vertical alignment? Of course I would expect that this wouldn't produce a pattern but rather a constant upward pressure on the leadscrew/saddle but who knows?
 
hello
on my 9x20 lathe conversion i had the exact same problem i had to remove the bearing on the spindle end of the lead screw it was lifting or moving the carriage as the screw turned.
pics would help a lot.
steve
 
I'll get some pictures of the parts later. Unfortunately the leadscrew is protected by a set of spring covers so I'll have to remove it before I can verify if it is or isn't bent. I do have the advantage of knowing that the lathe *was* working fine at one point with this setup. The spindle-end bearing is the thrust bearing (probably 2 bearings really, but I haven't gotten it apart). As such I can't really run the lathe without it. I've lost a few thousandths of accuracy in the Z-axis by running it with the bearing support loose.
 
Yes, had this same problem on a manual lathe when I first bought it. Combination of two problems: Leadscrew was bent and halfnuts not adjusted properly. Also, helps to have the carriage jibs adjusted properly and if the ways are belly worn near the headstock, it's time to resurface the ways or get a new lathe.
 
Fortunately the bed is fine. It's a flame-hardened bed and since this was an early CNC conversion it didn't get much use (probably spent most of it's first decade or two down with 1980's control problems :)) ). I'll double check the saddle gibs, although I don't know if I can reach them with the enclosure on and it's tought to remove the back half. Sounds like everyone's anectodal evidence points towards the leadscrew.
 
Definitely a leadscrew -or related problem (bent LS, or the drive-pin in the collar gear is sticking in the lengthwise LS slot, halfnuts misadjusted, bigh hunk of swarf embedded in the halfnuts etc). BTDT myself -and have seen it on other lathes too.


Fortunately the bed is fine. It's a flame-hardened bed and since this was an early CNC conversion it didn't get much use (probably spent most of it's first decade or two down with 1980's control problems :)) ). I'll double check the saddle gibs, although I don't know if I can reach them with the enclosure on and it's tought to remove the back half. Sounds like everyone's anectodal evidence points towards the leadscrew.
 
Took another look at the lathe last night. I removed the servo again and tried to adjust the headstock end of the leadscrew. While there were in fact adjustments built in (see pics) I discovered that after proper adjustment was obtained the mount was drilled and roll-pinned in place. It could not have shifted during transport and can not be adjusted now.

I also cut a 16" test bar. The pattern was present the entire length. In the middle of the test bar the pattern becomes very faint, but I think this is due to the bar flexing. If I had larger diameter material I believe that the pattern would be present and unchanged for the entire length. It seems too coincidental that it became faint at exactly the center of my test bar and returned as the carriage approached the spindle.

I forced back the leadscrew covers and moved the carriage to both ends. I don't have a long machinist's straightedge, just a long woodworking straightedge, but there was no detectible bend along the length of the leadscrew. I would think that if this were a bent leadscrew that it would have to be bent severely enough to be detectible with even a reasonable straightedge, unless it is bent right at the drive end where it enters the thrust bearing assemble (entirely possible, but I have to remove it to check that). The carriage gibs appear adjusted, but that is tricky to tell on a CNC. I need to remove the servo and turn it by hand, and I may need to remove the enclosure to reach the gibs well enough for a fine adjustment.

Beginning of Test Bar.jpg End of Test Bar.jpg Lower Adjustment Bolt.jpg Middle of Test Bar.jpg Servo and Thrust Bearing.jpg Test Bar Overall.jpg Upper Adjustment Bolt.jpg
 
Can you clarify? Is your LS being driven by a CNC motor or, driven synchronously through gears in the headstock? Once you rule-out glitches in the screw, gib etc. it's time to look at what's driving the LS. I've seen this same symptom in several lathes and if it's not the typical bent or mis-adjusted LS, you usually end-up taking the whole darn lathe apart.
 
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