Struggling with lathe bearing preload...

daved20319b

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I have an older (80's) Grizzly 12x24 belt drive lathe. It hasn't seen much use for awhile, for a variety of reasons, but I'm planning on doing a lot more machining over the winter. I just did added a 3 phase motor and VFD, that's running fine, but I want/need to make sure the bearing preload is right, something seems off. Problem is, the process outlined in the original manual is just confusing. They say "optimum" preload is .002-.004", but damned if I can figure out WHERE you're supposed to measure that. I had a dial indicator on the spindle nose (it's threaded BTW), and I thought I had all the play dialed out, but when I ran the lathe, the spindle nose got pretty hot pretty fast, so way too tight (?). I'm obviously doing something wrong, I just don't know what. Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated, thanks!

Dave
 
I have an older (80's) Grizzly 12x24 belt drive lathe. It hasn't seen much use for awhile, for a variety of reasons, but I'm planning on doing a lot more machining over the winter. I just did added a 3 phase motor and VFD, that's running fine, but I want/need to make sure the bearing preload is right, something seems off. Problem is, the process outlined in the original manual is just confusing. They say "optimum" preload is .002-.004", but damned if I can figure out WHERE you're supposed to measure that. I had a dial indicator on the spindle nose (it's threaded BTW), and I thought I had all the play dialed out, but when I ran the lathe, the spindle nose got pretty hot pretty fast, so way too tight (?). I'm obviously doing something wrong, I just don't know what. Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated, thanks!

Dave

You don't measure preload, you calculate it. You use the thread pitch of the adjuster mechanism, you adjust to zero, then preload by some (small, small) portion of rotation of the threaded adjuster.

Or, you can do it by heat. (Presuming that all the bearings are properly lubricated and all that....) When you've got it right, you should be at a point where after half an hour "idling" at a middle speed, to just above, you should just barely (only just barely) be able to feel a temperature difference at the bearings. (Both should warm, if only one does, there's an issue).

Practice running the adjuster from loose to "tight", you'll feel a spot where the bearings "touch", but you can keep turning. That's you cross from clearance to preload.

Question- What's the thread pitch of the adjuster? (Diameter is not important).

Question- When you're measuring the play, how are you doing that? How is the micrometer mounted to the lathe, and are they asking you to measure radial (up and down) play, or are they asking you to measure axial play, in line with the spindle? Can you mock up the micrometer setup and post a photo?
 
You don't measure preload, you calculate it. You use the thread pitch of the adjuster mechanism, you adjust to zero, then preload by some (small, small) portion of rotation of the threaded adjuster.

Or, you can do it by heat. (Presuming that all the bearings are properly lubricated and all that....) When you've got it right, you should be at a point where after half an hour "idling" at a middle speed, to just above, you should just barely (only just barely) be able to feel a temperature difference at the bearings. (Both should warm, if only one does, there's an issue).

Practice running the adjuster from loose to "tight", you'll feel a spot where the bearings "touch", but you can keep turning. That's you cross from clearance to preload.

Question- What's the thread pitch of the adjuster? (Diameter is not important).

Question- When you're measuring the play, how are you doing that? How is the micrometer mounted to the lathe, and are they asking you to measure radial (up and down) play, or are they asking you to measure axial play, in line with the spindle? Can you mock up the micrometer setup and post a photo?
Thanks, Jake. To answer your questions, the "adjuster mechanism" is simply a pair of lock nuts on the outboard end of the spindle, bearing on a spacer that bears on the outboard end bearing. Thread pitch is 16 TPI. As I understand the instructions, the dial indicator is set up to measure axial play, dial indicator in a mag base on the carriage, with the tip bearing on the spindle register and in line with the spindle. Heat buildup was WAY out of balance, the chuck end of the spindle was HOT after just a few minutes at a medium speed, but the outboard end was barely warm. Bearings themselves have lube cellars, which are at the proper level. I suppose it's possible the one on the chuck end is plugged up, I haven't pulled the bearing caps to check yet, guess that's my next step.

So my confusion is coming from the "optimum preload". From the description, I don't know if I'm supposed to be measuring axial play, or movement of the lock nut from the zero play point. Based on what you've said, I'm thinking it's the latter, but I really have no idea of how to measure .003" of locknut rotation . Anyway, I hope that answers all your questions, any further insight will be much appreciated. Thanks!

Dave

Some additional info. I pulled the bearing cap on the chuck end, no issue with lubrication, the bearing was nicely bathed in oil. However, I don't know if this is significant, but most of the rollers were NOT turning. This improved as I continued tightening up the locknut, but a lot of them still stop rolling as they pass over the top of the spindle. Also (maybe) worth noting that the ends of the rollers look rather worn, obviously I don't know what the actual bearing surfaces look like. Also maybe worth noting, despite continued tightening of the lock nut, the spindle still feels about the same when turning, neither more or less force required to turn it. So do I keep tightening the locknut, or do I buy new bearings? Thanks again!
 
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My first suggestion would be to see if you can find a way to SOLIDLY mount the indicator directly to the headstock. If you follow the path from the base, on the carriage, through the ways, you've got room enough that you probably can influence the indicator just by pushing on the back of the spindle.
The way you have it, when you push on the spindle, ANY movement within the whole of the machine is going to show axial play, whether it's real or not. You should be pushing/pulling pretty firmly on this. The way to test it is this- Run the adjusters tight by hand. As tight as you can get 'em. Rotate the spindle by hand, then, if needed, use whatever tool to tighten a little more, until you can feel some interference when you try to rotate the spindle. Without a chuck mounted, the "rules of thumb" don't work, but that's fine. It SHOULD rotate by hand, just grabbing the end and turning it, but it shouldn't be a fight. Just tangible (VERY tangible) resistance, but one hand with reasonable effort should do it. (Don't power it up like this, but slowly, you're not even remotely coming close to any dynamic loads... No worries...). At that point, you have enough preload that you, yourself, are not capable of moving the indicator IF (and it's a big if), IF the indicator is mounted to a solid point for measuring. So now, with everything "too tight to a degree that you can be 450 percent sure that there's ZERO axial movement under hand force- See what your reading is when you push and pull. That'll prove or disprove the mounting situation that I don't approve of, but "maybe"... It's fine? Science wins over speculation.

Now, with the indicator in a PROVEN location and setup... Back the adjusters off until you can measure axial play, and start the process of incrementally tightening the collar.
As you snug the collar, the reading should reduce. Repeat that in very, very small increments, approaching zero. As you watch your reading, and move in small, EQUAL increments, you'll probably be able to feel out how much turning gets you one one thousandth of an inch less axial play. When you get it down to one, you'll have one more equal "move" to be at zero. And one more would get you one thousandth of preload. And two more would get you two thousandths of preload.

For some ballpark to get you started, if the adjuster is on a 16 tpi thread, then one thread is one rotation. So one full rotation, 360 degrees, is going to get you 0.062 thousandths of preload. (Don't do that...). Call that 0.060 thousandths. (Plenty close enough, you're gonna divide this error down to nothing). Divide by four for 90 degrees, that's 0.016 per quarter turn, 0.008 per eighth turn... You can see that's going to get fiddly.
There's a spline or a gear or something on the back of that spindle that's got "some" number of teeth. I'd suggest taking that 0.060 per revolution, and dividing that into whatever number of splines or teeth you find back there to use as a reference. So if you find (for an arbitrary example, I have no idea), if you find 20 "teeth" back there, 0.060 per turn divided by 20 teeth, that's 3 thousandths per tooth, so one third of a tooth space would be your increment. Much more managable.

So yeah... It's not a quick measurement, but once you validate a steady indicator, it's just a matter of iterating to get the feel. Then it speeds right along. And when you're done, run the lathe for a time. VERIFY that the bearings are at or just below the point where you can
If you find some number that doesn't work at all, like seventeen teeth (you won't find that...), but it doesn't divide well, it's fine. You're moving in small increments, and resetting your counting point every thousandth (or so) from the measurement on the indicator. So any error is "one time", they won't stack up, and will be well within any reasonable tolerance.

In the end, if they want 0.001 to 0.002 of preload, I'd say that you'd be "fine" at a half to three, and if you were off a little further than that (within reason)- Your grand kids might not live long enough to know the difference. I'd shoot for the lower side honestly, and do my best to hit 0.001. These bearings will not be challenged all that much (relatively speaking), so there is no need to maximize the preload, just so long as it's there.

And, as you're new at this (and maybe even if you weren't new at this), I'd validate it. Run the lathe again for a half hour. The ideal place to be on something such as this is at a middle to two thirds speed, you want to be at or just below the point where you can feel a temperature difference in the headstock casting with your fingers. Just barely notable if you're looking for it, but might miss it if you were not looking for it is perfect. That point or less, and you're done.
 
I'm wondering if the front bearing is indeed worn out- running hot and rollers not turning doesn't sound good
Let's hope for the best
 
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With the rollers turning on the bottom, but not the top indicates the cup in the housing could be installed crooked, another possibility is the housing could be oval, resulting in inadequate contact. With only a limited number of rolling elements in contact, that would cause the bearing to run hotter than normal.

I would pull the spindle and see if you can find any evidence of the inner or outer rings partially contacting the shoulder. They should have full contact. It would be a good idea to remove the cup and check the housing for roundness. If the housing is out of round, it will cause the bearing rolling elements to only contact the narrow spots. It could be as simple as a burr between the bearing ring and the housing. While you have the bearing out, if it looks questionable, replace it with a new one.
 
Thanks again, guys. I decided I am going to pull the spindle so I can inspect the bearings, it really is feeling like at least the inboard bearing has issues, hopefully it'll be obvious. After either verifying they're good, or replacing, I'll be ready to start over and hopefully get this thing sorted out. Will keep ya'll posted, later.

Dave
 
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