Southbend 7" Experimenting

[ltlvt]

Today I ground a HSS tool bit for my Southbend 7". My shaper experience is 5 years ago I used this shaper to make a TEE Nut for the compound on my Clausing 100 lathe. It has not been turned on since. I realized when using it the right side way was not oiling. Fixed the lube problem this week and now I am in the process of self teaching myself how to grind shaper bits and how to run the machine. Using a piece of HRS I decided to make it flat on all 4 sides. As the pictures will show HRS is not at all flat from the mill and is normally high in the middle on all 4 sides. I first started with a virgin peice os 1/4"x1/4' HSS and ground it to work on the shaper. Put it in an Armstrong angled tool holder and started cutting chips. After 3 or 4 passes I changed to another tool holder that is straight. It seemed to work much better. Then I changed to a lathe bit I had in my tool bit drawer. It was really sharp but did a less than acceptable job. Part being the tool /operator/material and setup. As you can see in the still photos the straight tool holder moved from verticle to about 92 or 93 degrees. I'm thinking that I may have the side shift of the table backwards causing it to put pressure on the tool as it is in the return stroke. Also not sure of what the rate of travel is. The settings range from .000 to .012 per stroke. Gona do some more reading tonight and more experimenting tomorrow. Feel free to add any advice or criticism . Just remember a person can be a top notch machinist and know very little about running a shaper. I want to perfect my shaper skills. Thanks for stopping by.

 

[Ulma Doctor]

you gotta get under the mill scale or you'll wear sharp tools out quickly.
you can dip it in vinegar for a few hours, of grind it off.
the table advancement should be timed with the backstroke of the ram.
i run my clapper straight up and down, unless i want to shape at an angle.
i was able to take near .100" cuts in cast aluminum scrap on my Ammco 7

i made a short video of sharpening a blank into a useful shaper tool, maybe it will help you...

 

[ltlvt]

you gotta get under the mill scale or you'll wear sharp tools out quickly.
you can dip it in vinegar for a few hours, of grind it off.
the table advancement should be timed with the backstroke of the ram.
i run my clapper straight up and down, unless i want to shape at an angle.
i was able to take near .100" cuts in cast aluminum scrap on my Ammco 7

i made a short video of sharpening a blank into a useful shaper tool, maybe it will help you...

Ulma that is absolutely the best tool grinding tutorial I have ever seen. I just need to downsize everything to 1/4". I'm trying to not overload the little Southbend as I learn the best methods of sharpening and metal removal. I'm used to hogging metal with my 3hp BP clone mill and my 2 hp Clausing lathes. The Southbend 7 has a phenolic Bull Gear so don't want to over do it. I really do appreciate the video. I am assuming it is your channel. I've been a subscriber to it for a while just never saw this video.

 

[Ulma Doctor]

thank you!
i'm not using a toolholder, the toolpost accepts 3/8"x3/4" blanks
the removal of the armstrong type bit holder, stiffened up the cutting
the Ammco also has a phenolic gear, i still try to push the limits

 

[ltlvt]

thank you!
i'm not using a toolholder, the toolpost accepts 3/8"x3/4" blanks
the removal of the armstrong type bit holder, stiffened up the cutting
the Ammco also has a phenolic gear, i still try to push the limits

I took your advice and removed the tool holder abd went straight to the clapper and now have the clapper vertical. Also found a much better tool bit in my collection and it works much better. The finish is acceptable for roughing but not quite sure if the hot roll is smearing or I need to make adjustments to the tool /tools. I am catching on pretty fast. My next move is to do a thorough cleaning of the machine and change the oil. After the cleaning and oil is changed I am going to try to set some target dimensions on paper and see how close I can get to them. I measured the block and seems like I have some taper end to end. I think it is in the bottom of the vice. I put an indicator on the ram and measured the top side of the fixed jaw and it is dead 0 ZERO front to rear. Looking at the vice i can see some scaring and I tried to stone it but next I will take the jaws off so I can get all the way across the bottom of the vice with my India stone. My question is should I expect to get the mirror finish I can get on my lathe when turning round stock or is the satin finish the best these little shapers will do? I did check the side shift and it was A$$ backwards. I had to put a dial indicator on it because my brain and eyes just can't tell for sure without measurements. It is working the way it should now. The finish in the pictures are with a .005 index on the side shift. I have decided to go with Mobil DTE Heavy medium for the circulating oil since it is also the oil I use in the headstock of my Clausing 5913 and my PM 833-T mill. That way I can just keep the one oil for all 3 machines. It is ISO 68 non detergent.

.

 

[Ulma Doctor]

In my experience and corroborating stories, shaping is not necessarily a precision endeavor. You may be able to hold a few thousandths, but don’t be too surprised to find that you may get some deviations.

On a bunch of aluminum shaping I was doing, I was flattening some reclaimed stock. The plates were relatively flat and had a nice finish, but after knocking.050” off each side, I was interested to find that the thickness varied about .004”
I usually cut from right to left (purely by habit, no legitimate reason).
After taking the cuts and measuring the plate, I found that right edge of the plate would be slightly thinner than the left edge. The variation could be attributed to hard spots in the cast aluminum, or machine wear, a combination of both, or other unknown factors .
Shimming of the work is often used to compensate for the shortcomings and produce relatively precise results.
Hot rolled steel doesn’t work well on smaller machines.
If you get to play with some 12L14 1214, or 1215- you’ll have the best time as far as steel goes.
Your machine is capable of handling other materials, but DOC, step over, and tool design are of importance.
Rounded tools are great for making nice finishes, shear tools make great finishes.
Cutting fluid really changes the finish in a positive way too

 

[ltlvt]

In my experience and corroborating stories, shaping is not necessarily a precision endeavor. You may be able to hold a few thousandths, but don’t be too surprised to find that you may get some deviations.

On a bunch of aluminum shaping I was doing, I was flattening some reclaimed stock. The plates were relatively flat and had a nice finish, but after knocking.050” off each side, I was interested to find that the thickness varied about .004”
I usually cut from right to left (purely by habit, no legitimate reason).
After taking the cuts and measuring the plate, I found that right edge of the plate would be slightly thinner than the left edge. The variation could be attributed to hard spots in the cast aluminum, or machine wear, a combination of both, or other unknown factors .
Shimming of the work is often used to compensate for the shortcomings and produce relatively precise results.
Hot rolled steel doesn’t work well on smaller machines.
If you get to play with some 12L14 1214, or 1215- you’ll have the best time as far as steel goes.
Your machine is capable of handling other materials, but DOC, step over, and tool design are of importance.
Rounded tools are great for making nice finishes, shear tools make great finishes.
Cutting fluid really changes the finish in a positive way too

Thanks Ulma. I will probably use it mostly as a tool to prepare stock for the mill. I know cold roll is the material of choice but the price difference is scary. I will continue with my experimenting and see what I can actually accomplish at holding target numbers. I personally think knowing what your personal equipment likes and dislikes is a big key to hitting the numbers consistently. A good example of that is the removable DRO I added to my old Clausing 100 Lathe. I know that if it reads .009 I need to dial in .008 to hit the number I am targeting. I only know this because of practice. Like Joe Pie says "Don't make the first thread you cut be the first thread you need" Practice and then cut the thread you need. " I agree with him. Scrap metal is cheap compared to a 99% finished part that just turned into scrap. I've been sort of binge watching your shaper videos. I've been a subscriber to your channel for quite a while. Don't know how I missed all the shaper videos. Could be because my passion is rebuilding and restoring Vintage and Antique machine tools. Sometimes I suffer from Tunnel Vision. thanks again for your time and all the videos.

 

[Ulma Doctor]

I’m happy that you have gained something from the videos .
Shapers are just cool to watch!

 

[ltlvt]

I’m happy that you have gained something from the videos .
Shapers are just cool to watch!

I think I am becoming addicted to it. I did some more experimenting yesterday with it on the hot roll and then a piece of T 6061. Check out the finish I got with the round carbide insert. The hot roll is also really smooth but seems to always smear. I intend to swap it 180 degrees end to end and see it the smear goes with the material or if it is the machine. The pictures don't do the finish justice. Smooth as a gravy sandwich.

 

[Ulma Doctor]

When I get home, I’ll hunt down a video and share it with you. It was produced by BBC Engineering .
Highly enlightening as to shaper/planer tool design