Smithy Machines

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Trentbennett66

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Hello all
Does anyone out there have any exp with the Smithy Machines. I am looking at there MI409 Mill and 1340 Lathe.
I have looked at a lot of machines but I have not come across anyone using a smithy. Are they really made in the USA?
How does a 3 in 1 machine stand up against dedicated machines.

Any input would be helpfull good or bad.

Thanks
Trentbennett66
 
Hi trentbennett66,
You mention their 1340 lathe and 409 mill, both of which have a $3500 price tag. You then mention a 3 in 1 machine. If your budget permits individual machines go that route. If it doesn't pick one of the machines and go that route anyway. I believe you will be happier in the long run. I only know 2 people that had 3 in 1s and they sold them after a while.

I didn't see where they claimed to be made in the US but they have a striking resemblance to the clone machines sold by many companies. The mill appears to be a rf45 clone and the lathe looks like many 1340s out there.

There are many options out there. Sometimes it may come down to who has the machine in stock because the clones are very similar. Take a look at the forum post for different machines to judge the differences for yourself. Look at standard features such as a lathe coming with 2 chucks which would allow you to use the machine and "grow" into a higher end chuck down the road. On a mill consider what you plan down the road. Spending money on power axis' when you intend to CNC soon for instance could be better spent on steppers and drivers.

Happy shopping,
Dave
 
Trent,

If the Smithys were made in the USA, it would be plastered all over their website. As far as I know, there are no more US companies making that class of machine. The last one I knew of was branded as International where some parts were made in the US. I believe they no longer answering their phones, emails or updating their website. -Doesn't look good. Even all the South Bends are made in either China or Taiwan.

3 in 1 machines... Most folks will always go for individual machines if they have the space and that is what is strongly recommended. Things get cramped in those tight quarters and it drives me nuts. I help a friend run a robotics program at a local high school and they have a 3 in 1 and I'm constantly gritting my teeth trying hard not to swear in front of the kids... It's not to say they are bad. They can do good work provided you stay within their capabilities. The upshot is, if you have the space, go with individual machines.

Many, many folks here that are looking at new machines are going with the Precision Matthews line. There are literally dozens of happy customers here and you can read thread after thread with positive things and barely find an unfavorable word about them. The mill you're looking at is the equivalent of a PM 932 or PM45. The two units are nearly identical but, the 932 is a slightly upgraded version that comes with power table, Z and variable speed. It's also about a grand less than the Smithy. Precision Matthews (www.machinetoolonline.com) has a great reputation and the machines are best your going to find in that class and price range. I've been a happy camper for 5 years with my PM45 mill and for about a year now with the 1236 lathe. I crank-out precision stuff with ease and have a small part time business... the machines are run 20 hours a week at a minimum without the slightest glitch.

I do a lot of help and question answering for Matt at Precision Matthews and I've written countless posts here about how and where machines are made in Asia and how they're ordered, customized and shipped. Search around through my threads and you'll get a lot of insight. Have a look at the PM machines and if you have questions, let us know and you'll hear a chorus of help from myself and others here.

Ray



Trentbennett66 said:
Hello all
Does anyone out there have any exp with the Smithy Machines. I am looking at there MI409 Mill and 1340 Lathe.
I have looked at a lot of machines but I have not come across anyone using a smithy. Are they really made in the USA?
How does a 3 in 1 machine stand up against dedicated machines.

Any input would be helpfull good or bad.

Thanks
Trentbennett66
Click to expand...
 
I did a little investigation... Smithy machines are and always have been produced in China.


Ray
 
Finally a thread I can contribute to. I've been hearing about the Smitty 3 into 1 for several years on the various H-D forums that I frequent. I've not heard one person yet that would do it again if they had it to do over again. Most have shifted them at the first opportunity absorbing the hit and eventually did what Ray suggests which is getting "dedicated purpose machines". The consistent story line is that while it will do somewhat what it says it will do, it does none of them really well. It's a compromise in most situations where in the majority of the cases one would prefer to not have to do so.

When the hay's in the barn, you'll find yourself much happier getting stand alone machines.
 
LOL... Ouch, you are a tough customer. -But I tend to agree. These days, multi-purpose units are not geared toward folks aspiring to do precision work. In the past, a couple vendors (now defunct) tried to make multi-purpose manual and CNC machines capable of reasonable accuracy -but like I said, they're now defunct.

I have a few hours of time on one of the more expensive Grizzly units from the high school robot stuff -and it's fine for their purposes since they're only working on aluminum and mild steel and their implied tolerances are on the order of +/- 0.010" (10 thou). -Which as far as I'm concerned, you could land a 747 in that amount of space. My biggest complaint is banging my head and hands into the mill components while trying to use the lathe component. Heaven forbid you leave a sharp cutter or drill bit in the mill. There's no way you can run the mill and lathe at the same time but, having a cutter mounted above the lathe bed is a prescription for stitches in the top of your hand. Aside from that, it has "no-frills", and is not really accurized in any significant way and I would not try to predictably hold tolerances in the +/- 1 thou range or better.

And finally, even if the lathe component were somewhat precise, it won't be for long after you finish milling a heavy piece that's connected to the same infrastructure...

Ray


EDIT: Clarified 4th sentence of 1st paragraph.

drs23 said:
Finally a thread I can contribute to. I've been hearing about the Smitty 3 into 1 for several years on the various H-D forums that I frequent. I've not heard one person yet that would do it again if they had it to do over again. Most have shifted them at the first opportunity absorbing the hit and eventually did what Ray suggests which is getting "dedicated purpose machines". The consistent story line is that while it will do somewhat what it says it will do, it does none of them really well. It's a compromise in most situations where in the majority of the cases one would prefer to not have to do so.

When the hay's in the barn, you'll find yourself much happier getting stand alone machines.
Click to expand...
 
I have a IMAX 1340 - it is a Chinese machine built to smithy's specs. The machine's finish is not perfect but pretty good for someone who wants to learn like me and not have time restraints such as running a business. I have had a few problems with the machine when it was new but the customer service is GREAT! They treat you like friends and will spend numerous hours helping you. I had a pulley problem and they sent me a new pulley and belt - no questions. They also provide setup answers.
No, it is not a Bridgeport and you can't take 0.050 each time, but I have had IMHO good precision with milling. If you want a machine to work on, and don't want to take up extra space that the 3000 pound + machines take, I would recommend this machine - it has a DC variable 2 hp drive from 0 RPM to 2800. I also use HSS cutters mostly on this machine but have tried carbide also.
 
Smithy and Bolton are just two of the vendors you will find offering Taiwanese and Mainland Chinese machines. The 3-N-1 idea is good if you have a very small shop and need the room, but if you have the room two stand alone machines will definitely give you more accuracy and improve the overall quality of anything you could produce in a smithy or other machine. I have a 3-N-1 and two separate lathes and hope to add a real mill to the shop in the near future. I have no intention of getting rid of any of my machines and the mill will be in addition to what I already have. My biggest issue right now is where in the world I am going to put all the machines I have so there is enough room to work around each one in turn. Sooner or later I am going to have to add a shipping container or add on to the shop to accommodate all of what I have jammed in their now. I have looked at Handi Houses and they don't seem very sturdy for the money and they are made of wood so fireproofing is going to add significant cost to it if I decide to get one of them. A sea-land container is all metal and lockable. I can also do a roof over and add an AC unit and have a really nice work or storage area for all of my toolboxes and heavy industrial equipment from my Class 8 truck shop I was running before I went to Iraq. Wiring is simple to run in a conduit and wiring it for 220 single phase and 115 Volt 20 amp circuits for lighting and outlets is also very easy too. If I decide to get snazzy I can insulate and sheet rock the interior of the container and have a super nice shop with climate control and a clean comfy area to work. Just sayin....

Bob
 
Thanks everyone for your help. I will definitely be going with stand alone machines,
Just Looking for the best quality for the $$$$
 
After having bought a Bolton 3 in 1 for a starter, and pretty much hating every moment, I bought a Smithy Granite Max 1324. Tbe Smithy is everything that they said it was. I would rather have bought individual dedicated machines, but the room in my garage doesn't allow for it. There are obviously some drawbacks to the 3 in 1's, mostly and foremost, not having any ways on the mill Z axis. This definitely hampers production. I read one person mentioning tolerances of +/- .010". I don't know where he got his information but I can turn "slip fit no shake" on the lathe all day long. If I'm working something small, and I need close tolerance I take the 3 jaw off and turn from a collet or on centers, if bigger, I use the 4 jaw. My 3 jaw has about .0015 tir, but thats the Chuck, put it on centers and I can get .001" or less. Smithy spec's their machines here in the states and they are built in China, but you wouldn't know it.I've had mine over a year and I haven't even had to adjust the gibs since I set it up. The worm gear on the mill quill is adjustable, but difficult to compensate for backlash so I just recently put igagings 6" DRO on it and that solved that. As my budget allows I will upgrade to a 12" on the cross slide and then a 24" on the Y axis. I'll be able to do all 3 for about $110,rather than Smithys $750. My limited experience with their customer service has been positive, and they're glad to help. So I would say if you you have an unlimited budget and space, buy a Bridgeport, and a Monarch, might as well go buy a Porsche while you're at it. If space is limited then a 3 in 1 is an option and I'd be willing to bet Smithys is at least one of the best ones out there, the Granites run about $5500 but if you wait they put them on sale for about a grand less, sometimes with free s&h. If that's too much then that puts you with a Chinese clone, which a Smithy is not. IMHO.
 
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