Small lathes /mills upgrade

M

mac1911

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Im not a machinist always wanted a lathe or mill for projects and odds and ends. I came into a 90s vintage smithy 1220 XL and it has been a trip cleaning it up , getting it worked out and finally getting it to a usable condition.
So far im into it “cheap” wiith belts, some missing bolts/screws/cleaner and time a QCTP and soon a new set of cutting tools.
What is a “next level” more modern machine.
Im already frustrated with the manual controls and the lack of some features .
What I dont want to do is spend to much on this machine
If something could be had in the future.
I do my own gun smithing and other projects on older stuff where a mill and or lathe can come in handy. This is 100% hobby at this time.
D17543D7-97B7-4AD3-830F-F3F8B76A3C80.jpeg
 
I had a similar machine many years ago and would say you are smart not to put too much into it.

Probably the first question to ask is how much space and power do you have?

I have a small space and own a Taiwan built 12x36 lathe and RF30 clone. I’d consider that a good place for hobby machines that won’t break the bank and can do most jobs with relative ease. I’ve got less than $2k into this setup although I went through quite a process to get there.

If you have the space and power a full size Bridgeport or clone and a 16x60 lathe get you into “forever” machine territory.

John
 
matthewsx said:
I had a similar machine many years ago and would say you are smart not to put too much into it.

Probably the first question to ask is how much space and power do you have?

I have a small space and own a Taiwan built 12x36 lathe and RF30 clone. I’d consider that a good place for hobby machines that won’t break the bank and can do most jobs with relative ease. I’ve got less than $2k into this setup although I went through quite a process to get there.

If you have the space and power a full size Bridgeport or clone and a 16x60 lathe get you into “forever” machine territory.

John
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12x16 shed no plans anytime soon for larger space. Electrician is coming in for estimate on getting power to my well and 2 out buildings.
So the time being im stuck with iether a 4500 watt gen or a 120v 30 amp extension from the house
Any money spent on this machine should easily shift to the next
 
Keep your eyes out for local deals, both my lathe and mill could be run off your 30 amp cord. Nice thing about the machines I have is they’ll do real work without taking up too much space.

I trust you have a decent floor in your shed? Both my machines are north of 600lbs each so concrete or a very sturdy wood floor are necessary. Some folks have poured pads that go through a wood floor or cinder blocks could work but you have to commit to location.

John
 
matthewsx said:
Keep your eyes out for local deals, both my lathe and mill could be run off your 30 amp cord. Nice thing about the machines I have is they’ll do real work without taking up too much space.

I trust you have a decent floor in your shed? Both my machines are north of 600lbs each so concrete or a very sturdy wood floor are necessary. Some folks have poured pads that go through a wood floor or cinder blocks could work but you have to commit to location.

John
Click to expand...
Shed floor was over built
2x10 with 3/4” Marine Grade PT under and 3/4” on top of that.
Just happens bench legs fall over joist plus 5” x 1/4” thick steel plates for feet to rest on.
Smithy list this machine at 560lbs
 
I agree with what John said and have similar machines, space and power constraints. So I have a 9x20 and RF30 running on 20a breakers. I’ve got a two car garage w/cement floors. Got to remember you are one guy running one machine at a time. I’m in the process of putting my compressor on a separate breaker as that’s where I run into trouble is running a machine tool, lights etc and then the compressor kicking in automatically. Once I get that squared away I’ll never pop another breaker.

I know the Smithy isn’t ideal but if you have the room I’d be careful about getting rid of it after you get a bigger lathe. There is often times when only another lathe can fix a lathe. Been there, needed that.
 
I have a little different perception on machining. I build models so have no need for an "industrial" size machine. Further, I went from a UniMat DB-200 to a Taiwanese 9 X 19, a huge step. The 9 X 19 (Grizzly) does cut threads, Imperial and Metric. Later, I came across an Atlas built Craftsman 12 X 36.

The only advantage over the Griz is larger swing and a full Norton vs a half Norton change gearbox. Other than the wider swing, which was used on one job in 20 years, it has no other advantage in size. Oh, and the backgearing, but I had already built such for the Griz so it isn't a real advantage. Otherwise, the long bed is a nice place to keep measuring tools. My tailstock hasn't been all the way out since I cleaned it up and started using it.

The Griz is about the size of your combo machine and does almost as well as the C'man. I have repaired/upgraded a small tractor with a Cat. 1 hitch, so it is capable of full sized (to me) work. I have reached a point that I don't see myself advancing any farther with machine work. And I do have a HF mini-mill and an Atlas horizontal machine so have sufficient milling capability.

As you advance, you may run into the problem of no matter how much lathe you have, just another inch of swing is needed. That is something that you must decide. But for small bux, I would say a 9 X 19, preferealy a Taiwanese version, would be large enough until it isn't. My Griz is a G-1550, the current model is G-4000, made in mainland China. I happen to think the finish on a Taiwanese machine is better, and it has the same spindle threads as my C'man. But spindle thread aside, there is a matter of a fancier drive mechanism. I actually don't want that variable speed nonsense but again, that's just my personal attitude.

.
 
Well, from one mac to another, I really like the transom windows above that very cool looking entry door.
And the sculpted (sliding bolt?) locking brackets on the large bottom door jams, nice touch.
I’m always amused when folks that have things made in the 90’s need to upgrade to more modern things.
I’m not busting your balls, my lathe (that I’ve had for 40 some yrs.) left South Bend April 8 1938, and I really should upgrade, but at my old age that ain’t gonna happen, besides the old lathe still works great for building small steam engines, cannon parts etc. etc. & I use it often.
Have fun with your new toy.
 
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I would put your focus on a mill. From what I understand those Smithys are an ok lathe, but leave a lot to be desired as a mill. You can use it for a bit to get a feel for where you need to go features and size wise. As John said a second smaller lathe can be handy, just as a quick set up when making multiple same parts or as a back up to fix your primary lathe.

This design of lathe is kind of deceptive, they offer a large swing, but while they say 12" or 13", in reality they are much closer to a 9x20 or 10x22" lathe with spacer blocks, so much lighter duty than most lathes of 12-13" swing. Also a smaller spindle bore than most 12-13" lathes (guessing 1", vs 1-3/8" to 1-9/16").

If you can manage it, Bridgeports and clones are relatively cheap so you can get a lot of mill for your money.

If a mill that size is out of the question, then budget wise round column mills like an RF-31 are hard to beat. They have some drawbacks, but they can often be found for a fraction of the price of other similar sized mills.

There are tons of mill options out there, but something with a table in the 6x26" to 8x30" is a nice size for a small mill. There are a few 1/2 -3/4 Bridgeport size knee mills you might keep an eye out for as well, Clausing 8520, Rockwell 21-100, Burke / Powermatic Millrite, and a number of Chinese / Taiwan imports.
 
There are just so different things to consider, especially if you start with "mill or lathe".
Make yourself some lists of questions/answers:
Budget? Now, longer term, tooling expenses.
New or Used? You fixed up the smithy, so it sounds like used could be an option.
Benchtop or floor standing?
3phase, RPC, or VFD retrofit as options, or strictly single phase?
Is DRO an need, desirable, or don't care.
How important is mass/rigidity?
For a lathe:
work envelope - gunsmithing commonly has interest in spindle bore size to pass barrels through
how much threading -- is a QCGB important?
For a mill:
power feeds
power drawbar

This is just a start, hopefully it gets you the idea. Then start looking, craigslist, FB marketplace, vendors websites (new), etc.
 
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