Single phase 5hp motors - Baldor vs WEG?

[FlyFishn]

I have always heard of Baldor motors being quality machine motors over the years. I had another thread going (link below) to searching for an air compressor. I think I am settling in on a Sailor-Beall 5hp unit/735 pump (probably 60gal vertical, possibly 80gal). They have a choice of the two motors (Baldor or WEG) and from what I hear WEG may have the edge on customer service after-sale. Can anyone offer any comments? Has anyone had any negative experiences with either?

Upgrade - Shop Air - Quality 60-80gal compressors?

I have an old 20gal/110v compressor that I am a bit scared to use now - the tank is rusted (stuck a borescope thru a port on the tank). I know where the compressor came from it wasn't overly well taken care of, either, but after researching compressors and seeing the aftermath of compressor...

www.hobby-machinist.com

 

[JimDawson]

Interestingly I have both motors (sort of) I have one compressor (red) that the Leeson motor failed on it after about 25 years, I replaced it with a Baldor compressor duty motor which failed after about 2 years. I use quite a bit of air now so it cycled a lot, unlike the first many years of compressors life. As a stand by, I had another 5hp compressor (black) (maybe 4 years old) that a customer gave to me when it's single phase motor failed. Like mine, it cycled a lot also. The good news is that I had already purchased a WEG motor to replace that failed motor, and had it ready to install on the black compressor in case the red compressor failed again, which it did.

However, the WEG motor is 3 phase. I decided on 3 phase because what was failing on the single phase motors is the centrifugal start switch, in all 3 cases. I bought a cheap Huanyang 10HP VFD to run it. https://www.amazon.com/Variable-Fre...ld=1&keywords=10+hp+vfd&qid=1609287821&sr=8-2

I set the VFD to accelerate to speed over 10 seconds, and the start current never goes over the normal running current. A nice soft start. I run my shop air at 125 PSI (rather than the 175 PSI that the compressors are rated for) with a 5 PSI differential so it cycles a lot. I've not had any problems since I installed this about 2 years ago.

 

[mksj]

When I bought my Champion 5Hp compressor about 4 years ago, they had switched to WEG motors instead of Blador. When I spoke to their rep. they said they were having more reliability issues with the Baldor. They still seem to come with either WEG or Baldor, not sure if it is a cost, supply or reliability issue. Also depends on the duty cycle, frequent start/stops will probably shorten any single phase motor's lifespan. I haven;t had any issues with my WEG, and do not run my compressor often enough to warrant 3 phase. Can't really say if one is better than another, but for frequent use 3 phase may be a better option.

 

[FlyFishn]

The good news is that I had already purchased a WEG motor to replace that failed motor, and had it ready to install on the black compressor in case the red compressor failed again, which it did.

However, the WEG motor is 3 phase. I decided on 3 phase because what was failing on the single phase motors is the centrifugal start switch, in all 3 cases......

I set the VFD to accelerate to speed over 10 seconds, and the start current never goes over the normal running current. A nice soft start.

Interesting information.

A couple questions.
1. How hard is it to replace a centrifugal start switch? As in - it would make sense to have spares on-hand from what you say, not that down'ing a compressor for the repair would be much fun but it would be a way to get back in gear perhaps - unless it is too big of a rebuild where a motor replacement would be a better option? I would find the replacement being a better option hard to believe on "quality" motors, though.

2. Do you know what kind of amperage or wattage your set up with the 3 phase VFD draws on input single phase? What line voltage (actual, not class - like my line voltage here is 245v, not "240", "230", or "220")

3. I thought motors for running VFD with had to be made for VFD. Physically the speed control with VFD on a non-VFD motor "works", but it will vastly shorten the life of the motor from what I have known on the subject. How does this line of thought fit with your motor set up? Is your WEG capable of VFD? Or is it a single-speed/non-VFD? Did WEG give you any guidance on motor selection for this application or is it something you came up with on-the-fly?

 

[JimDawson]

Interesting information.

A couple questions.
1. How hard is it to replace a centrifugal start switch? As in - it would make sense to have spares on-hand from what you say, not that down'ing a compressor for the repair would be much fun but it would be a way to get back in gear perhaps - unless it is too big of a rebuild where a motor replacement would be a better option? I would find the replacement being a better option hard to believe on "quality" motors, though.

It just requires a motor teardown. But there could be other damage to the motor also. Frankly I never looked at the motors beyond confirming the centrifugal switch was fried, before I tossed them in the scrap bin.

2. Do you know what kind of amperage or wattage your set up with the 3 phase VFD draws on input single phase? What line voltage (actual, not class - like my line voltage here is 245v, not "240", "230", or "220")

At 240V, the max load on my single phase line is 23 amps, right at the nameplate amps for a 5HP motor.

3. I thought motors for running VFD with had to be made for VFD. Physically the speed control with VFD on a non-VFD motor "works", but it will vastly shorten the life of the motor from what I have known on the subject. How does this line of thought fit with your motor set up? Is your WEG capable of VFD? Or is it a single-speed/non-VFD? Did WEG give you any guidance on motor selection for this application or is it something you came up with on-the-fly?

Most modern motors with class''H'' insulation are just fine on a VFD. Consider that most 3 phase motors are dual voltage (230/460 in North America). What kills motors is the ''spikey'' output from a VFD, actually punches through the insulation. Since we are running them at half of their max rated voltage, it's really not an issue. The actual insulation in the motor is most likely rated at 1000 - 1200 volts. In my 40 or so years of hanging VFDs on motors, I have never seen a failure. I have been running VFDs on my machine tools for years, and have installed many on non-inverter rated motors over the years in many applications.

I didn't ask for any guidance from WEG, in fact, I purchased that motor from a guy on Craigslist for $125. It was brand new, never used. I know the brand so just went off of my experience.

 

[Larry$]

WEG motors, at least the 40hp one on my vacuum pump, are made in Brazil. It has been running fine for 8 years. I think the worst thing about VFDs is people use them to run motors too slow. The motor fan then doesn't provide much for cooling.

 

[f350ca]

The Baldor draft motor on my boiler died a couple of years ago, when I went to replace it the chap at the rewind shop recommended Weg over Baldor, said they were a lot more reliable. Went for the Weg replacement, I could always hear the Baldor when I left the house if the boiler was running, when I hooked up the Weg I checked to make sure it was 3600 rpm motor as it was so quiet. Still quiet.

Greg

 

[Ulma Doctor]

Baldor used to be great name for motors, the old 3 phase motors lasted forever.
i think that they are trying too hard to make cheaper motors now.
the better than it has to be mentality, is sadly, dead.
the Baldor motors are still good.
i have used WEG motors to retrofit drive systems, in abusive environments- they have proven to be good motors.
IMHO the WEG motor is a better motor nowadays

 

[FlyFishn]

Most modern motors with class''H'' insulation are just fine on a VFD. Consider that most 3 phase motors are dual voltage (230/460 in North America). What kills motors is the ''spikey'' output from a VFD, actually punches through the insulation. Since we are running them at half of their max rated voltage, it's really not an issue. The actual insulation in the motor is most likely rated at 1000 - 1200 volts. In my 40 or so years of hanging VFDs on motors, I have never seen a failure. I have been running VFDs on my machine tools for years, and have installed many on non-inverter rated motors over the years in many applications.

Good information. Thank you for the detail.

As for the original subject of the thread - from the replies in the thread I'd say it's pretty conclusive that WEG is the better motor today. Thanks for the info everyone, as always.

 

[pacifica]

I have weg 5hp single phase on my compressor, it runs about an hour a day and is 5 years old. Works great. I bought it over baldor or leeson because at the time it cost 30% less.
I also have a 2 hp baldor on my belt grinder ( 3 phase) which is quiet, powerful and shows less than a ten-thousandths run-out on the spindle shaft.