Shop Fox M1112 not as described, should I send this back?

[Chip]

My Shop Fox M1112 delivered last week. Now that I have found the time to look all my parts over it turns out that they shipped me the lathe with a lighter weight fabricated steel stand rather than the cast iron version that is listed in thier owners manual, and shown in their website pictures.

It seemed like it might be a case of mistaken delivery so I contacted a rep at Shop Fox and after they changed their story a couple times I was eventually told that the steel stand I received was all they have. My first thoughts are that selling something with such a significant change in specification without making people aware is false advertising whether intentional or not. I'm strongly considering sending it back, and if so it will be on their dollar.

My question is; do the more knowledgeable people here think that a steel stand is equal to a cast iron version?

 

[rgray]

I think I would seriously consider sending it back. I have a M1112 with the cast stands and after hearing plenty of stories about the ripple vibration effect showing up on work from a grizzly g4003 with steel stands I'd hate to loose that vibration dampening.
I have read of fixes for the steel stands, but that's no fun to have to fix something that you already paid for and didn't get.

 

[dave2176]

I would want the cast iron for its dampening affect. Be careful with the "specifications subject to change without notice" clause.
Dave

 

[Reeltor]

I think I would seriously consider sending it back. I have a M1112 with the cast stands and after hearing plenty of stories about the ripple vibration effect showing up on work from a grizzly g4003 with steel stands I'd hate to loose that vibration dampening.
I have read of fixes for the steel stands, but that's no fun to have to fix something that you already paid for and didn't get.

And a cast iron stand costs a lot more than a sheet metal one. If it was me I'd protest the transaction with the credit card company (in writing). You only have 60 days from date of purchase. The question is, is the purchase date the delivery date or the order date?

Good luck, I hope you get this resolved to your satisfaction.

Mike

 

[mksj]

I guess the main question of was who you bought through and if it was with a credit card. Some credit card companies, like American Express are very good if there are any buyer issues. The manual and specification sheet state Cast Iron and Steel stand, sometimes the base is cast and the cabinet is metal sheet. One can always mass load the base and/or stiffen the cabinets further for very little. I have a PM1340 with steel cabinets, I have no issues, but at some point I may get some rectangular steel tubes and run a set between the cabinets at the rear back top/bottom. You can also mass load them by filling them with concrete, people have also done this to the bases.

If they no longer make the cast iron base as listed, then what are the alternatives machines. The issues with the G4003G "ripple vibration" has multiple reported etiologies, the most common seems to be problems with the pulley alignment (and out of round/balance issues), bad or mismatched belts, single phase motor cogging and adjustments (loose motor mounts....) as the most common issues. If you like the machine otherwise, you got a great price and the base is heavy steel, then I can't see that it would make a significant difference at this level of machine. Very few of the machines in this weight/size range come with an all cast iron base. If it is something you just can't live with then see about your options for returning it.

 

[Chip]

Thank you all for your thoughts on the matter.

I bought it through an authorized seller through ebay so returning it for a full refund should be pretty straightforward since the pictures and specifications don't match. Darn shame they downgraded that lathe. I figured for the premium Shop Fox wants people to pay over a grizzly G4003g that it would have a premium configuration. Turns out that it is built the same, or less.
.
So...if I were to keep it and determined that the stand needed help, I could possibly improve it by filling it with sandbags? I have a welder. Would bracing it somehow be a better way to go?

 

[coolidge]

Thank you all for your thoughts on the matter.

I bought it through an authorized seller through ebay so returning it for a full refund should be pretty straightforward since the pictures and specifications don't match. Darn shame they downgraded that lathe. I figured for the premium Shop Fox wants people to pay over a grizzly G4003g that it would have a premium configuration. Turns out that it is built the same, or less.
.
So...if I were to keep it and determined that the stand needed help, I could possibly improve it by filling it with sandbags? I have a welder. Would bracing it somehow be a better way to go?

Well its $500 more than the G4003G when you factor in shipping from Grizzly vs free shipping from Amazon, I don't see anything worth an extra $500 I own a G4003G and it looks to be identical except for the coolant pump. The Shop Fox does list the spindle bore at 1.625 which I find questionable as the G4003G is 1.574 and I find it hard to believe the lathes would be a clone except that the Shop Fox spindle bore is another .051 inches larger. I think that is unlikely. So I don't think the Shop Fox is worth $500 than the Grizzly. Plus I'd go with a fog buster type coolant system in any case. So for $500 is it worth returning in it and just buying the Grizzly? Well $500 would buy a good bit of tooling, hell that would buy an Aloris tool post.

As for the stand here's the deal, the factory stand is too tall and too shallow imo. I'm 5' 7" and its about 4 inches too tall for me. But its the shallow depth I'm concerned with, if its not bolted flat to the concrete it would tip over in an average earth quake. If you put leveling pads on the stand its even more shallow by several inches. So I'm already planning to build my own stand that's a bit lower and quite a bit deeper.

That's my 2 cents.

 

[mksj]

The eBay listing is the same price as a G4003G shipped, and probably the same basic machine and stand. The current listing just specifies heavy duty base on both lathes specs. At the end of the day, I do not think it is going to make any tangible difference. If you are in earthquake country and bolt it to a concrete slab, it will be very rigid. As previously mentioned, most lathes in this size have metal fabricated bases and do just fine. You would have to get a much heavier $$$ machine to probably see a significant difference.

 

[tmarks11]

...with a lighter weight fabricated steel stand rather than the cast iron version...do the more knowledgeable people here think that a steel stand is equal to a cast iron version?

What is the thickness of the steel used to weld up the base?

While steel doesn't give you quite the same magical, vibration absorbing characteristics that cast iron does, it should still work just fine if it is a similar thickness. If you haven't assembled the stand yet, what is the weight of each side (since the website says they weigh 108 # and 93#).

200# of cast iron isn't really going to "absorb" much vibration.... at least significantly more than a 1000# cast iron machine hasn't already "absorbed". The key element is whether or not it acts to amplify that vibration.... which a thin flimsy stand would. I suspect what you got ISN'T a thin flimsy stand.

At the end of the day, the cast iron bases are pretty crudely manufactured. A welded steel base is a higher quality unit.

Where the cast iron stands start to shine is the one piece heavy castings (like 1000# or more) found on the base of the PM 1440HD or Grizzly G0509G.

 

[coolidge]

AND my new welded up lathe stand will be on Footmaster casters with the built in ratchet adjustment. I purchased these for my mill stand, they are quite large and heavy duty. The ratchet is great, its like a built in ratcheting socket wrench that goes up or down with a little flip lever same as on a wrench. I got tired of scratching my head trying to integrate separate mounting locations for casters vs leveling pads, then having to raise the casters up in relation to the pads so the pads were run out 3-4 inches to clear the casters, just a real pain. Having the level pad and caster integrated into a single unit is so much easier and since this particular caster is 4 inches tall that's 4 less inches of stand you have to build. I will go with the 4 bolt base plate version of the caster for the lathe vs this stem mount though.