Sheldon lathe ?

WesPete66

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I might have a chance to buy a Sheldon lathe. At this point that is all that is known about the machine, a pic is attached. I will be able to go see it tomorrow night.
I'm familiar with lathes, owning an Atlas now, but know nothing about the particulars of Sheldons. Is anybody able to give any pointers about this machine based on the photo, prior to my seeing it? Any weak points to look closely at? Things to look for?
I see it still has a rocker tool post, quick change gears, and a steady rest. It has V ways, so assume it is a step up from my Atlas QC54..
sheldon1.JPG
 
The Sheldon is definitely a step up from the Atlas, on nearly every line item- power, capacity, rigidity, precision, QCGB.

The Workshop Practice series has an entire volume dedicated to learning to run a Sheldon lathe. It's titled as lathe for beginners, but the book was written for English home shop machinists a generation ago, which is a group that had a surplus of Sheldon lathes at the time. They are more rare in the US. I wouldn't let that stop me, any replacement part is going to have to be built, cross-swapped, or located and sourced on an older lathe regardless of whether the maker is still in business. As long as you can get belts and bearings, the rest can be managed in the shop.
 
The Sheldon is definitely a step up from the Atlas, on nearly every line item- power, capacity, rigidity, precision, QCGB.

The Workshop Practice series has an entire volume dedicated to learning to run a Sheldon lathe. It's titled as lathe for beginners, but the book was written for English home shop machinists a generation ago, which is a group that had a surplus of Sheldon lathes at the time. They are more rare in the US. I wouldn't let that stop me, any replacement part is going to have to be built, cross-swapped, or located and sourced on an older lathe regardless of whether the maker is still in business. As long as you can get belts and bearings, the rest can be managed in the shop.
Sheldon's are excellent machines. They are considered to be several steps above Logan and South Bend. There was a lengthy discussion about these machines on a professional board about 10 years ago. The vast majority of participants were very pleased with their accuracy and ease of operation. Could you be more specific as to which book in the series details the operation of the Sheldon lathe. I tried a quick search but didn't come up with anything.

Also, I'm surprised about the statement "They are more rare in the US." They were made in Chicago from the 1930's to the 1980's. In the 1960's they started the "R" series precision tool room lathes that were in the same class as the Hardinge and Monarch tool room machines.

While many of their model lines were lighter than LeBlond, Monarch, or American they were considered more than adequate for light to medium production work. While production of these machines was ceased in the early 1980's Borne & Koch out of Chicago purchased all the rights and blueprints. Essentially almost any part can be purchased new, but since almost no stock exists it will have to be manufactured. That translates to high prices. On the other hand, there are always offerings on eBay and other auction sites as well as used equipment dealers.

I've had an MW-56-P machine (Worthington spindle drive,13" x 56" bed, pedestal mounting platform) since 2016. The previous owner rebuilt the top end including having the ways ground and installing new headstock bearings. This particular machine uses a Worthington drive (similar to a Reeves drive) to change spindle speeds rather than the more standard lever actuated gear selection. I rebuilt the Worthington drive in 2018. Speeds range from 60 rpm in low range to 2,200 rpm in high range. It has an L series chuck mount which allows the spindle to be run at any speed in either forward or reverse without danger of losing the chuck. I love the speed change feature in that rather than changing gear ratios all the operator has to do is push a button to increase or decrease speed. The spindle speed is displayed on a tachometer behind the control station. My machine was missing the tach, so I installed a Mach Tach to do the job.

About the only possible drawback I can think of is that it uses Furnas (now Semians) starters and controls. They aren't nearly as popular as Allen Bradley and may be more expensive to replace than the Allen Bradley controls.

As an FYI I sought out this particular make and model for my shop. I had the opportunity to purchase several Logan or South Bend machines all of which were in excellent condition. I chose the Sheldon due to its accuracy and ease of operation.

Here are some pictures of my machine:
 

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The Workshop Practice series has an entire volume dedicated to learning to run a Sheldon lathe. It's titled as lathe for beginners, but the book was written for English home shop machinists a generation ago, which is a group that had a surplus of Sheldon lathes at the time.
Yes - a link to this book would be great :~)
Also, Sheldon Machine Co. had a book of their own, kind of like the South Bend one, called "The Care and Operation of a Lathe"
I got mine from Lindsey's, which is gone now, but Amazon still has it :
 
I have a PDF copy of the Sheldon Care and Operation book. I can't remember where I got it, but I do believe if you search the name it's still out there. I no longer have the link and the file is too large to download at 27.1 MB.
 
I will have to look in an archive drive to see where I put the book, but I think I may have had a senior moment and confused my lathe history of Sheldon with Myford. I thought it was Sheldon that licensed its design to a major British manufacturer after WWII, and they made a lot of them in England. I could be wrong, there's a lot of loose crap rattling around upstairs these days.
 
Here are some pictures of my machine:
Projectnut, your lathe looks quite similar. Would you please describe to me the operation of the levers on the apron? What is the one that swings in-out?

I did get to see the Sheldon last night. (Not optimal, cold, getting dark no lights, others milling around..).
It is a Sheldon EXL-56-P, serial EXL-30352.
By the literature I found, the XL variety is a 10" swing with "short" 5MT spindle taper; D1-4" cam lock spindle; 1.37 dia spindle thru-hole.
It has 8 speeds in open belt, plus 8 in back gear.
I'm not sure on the motor, but the plug-in looked like any regular 220 volt outlet/plug. Hit the switch and it ran, maybe noisier than I expected.

Is this machine really weighing in at 1400 lbs?? And of course, what are these lathes typically priced at?
 
Projectnut, your lathe looks quite similar. Would you please describe to me the operation of the levers on the apron? What is the one that swings in-out?

I did get to see the Sheldon last night. (Not optimal, cold, getting dark no lights, others milling around..).
It is a Sheldon EXL-56-P, serial EXL-30352.
By the literature I found, the XL variety is a 10" swing with "short" 5MT spindle taper; D1-4" cam lock spindle; 1.37 dia spindle thru-hole.
It has 8 speeds in open belt, plus 8 in back gear.
I'm not sure on the motor, but the plug-in looked like any regular 220 volt outlet/plug. Hit the switch and it ran, maybe noisier than I expected.

Is this machine really weighing in at 1400 lbs?? And of course, what are these lathes typically priced at?
I've owned two Sheldon lathes and am very happy with the one I still have (same model, just found one with a taper attachment). There is a very active Sheldon owner's group with a lot of manuals and documentation available...and very helpful people who really know the machines. I'll put a link at the end.

In general, Sheldon's lathes were very robust for their swing size and tend to be heavier than many of their competitors. I wouldn't doubt that machine is in the ballpark of 1,400lbs but that may be the cited shipping weight, so a touch less as it sits...maybe 1,200lbs. The one you're looking at has a later, much more desirable D1-4 spindle, which is a huge plus. The only thing I don't see in the picture is a follow rest, which is handy to have. That's the one thing missing from my Sheldon...they show up on eBay from time to time, but more commonly in the smaller sizes, so I'm going to fabricate one. The short 5MT spindle taper can make it hard to find a collet adapter, or dead center, but you can always just get a collet chuck if it doesn't have the collet adapter.

Being a gear head machine they will be quite a bit nosier than something like a South Bend with belt drive. I notice a big difference in back gear and when the power feed gearbox is engaged. I actually just replaced one of the gears in the power feed drive train with a 3D printed gear and it's probably 25% quieter now.

As far as the apron controls go, you have three levers. On the upper right you have the half-nut lever which is only used for thread cutting. It's only used for that to limit wear and because it's not clutched, so if you crash the tool into the chuck it's not stopping. To the left and slightly lower than the half-nut lever is a three-position power feed selector. In the middle position the carriage is free to turn with the hand wheel, or under power by the half-nut. Move the selector to the right position and it sends power feed to the carriage. Move the selector lever to the right and it sends power feed to the cross slide. The lever that moves in/out at the bottom is the clutched lever to actually engage the power feed to either the carriage or cross slide. The good thing with the power feed using a clutch is that if you crash the tool into the chuck it will slip and hopefully limit the amount of damage.

For either the half-nut or power feed to work you have to have a feed rate/TPI selected on the quick-change gearbox, and move the lever that is above and to the left of the QCGB either up or down (with the lathe stopped). That engages gears between the headstock and the QCGB which turns the lead screw. The brass tag on the QCGB has both feed rates in inches per revolution and threads per inch. When you're using the half nut, the TPI is what you look at, and when you're using power feed the IPR is what you look at. If you set the QCGB levers in a certain position and compared what happens using power feed and the half-nut, it moves much faster with the half-nut....drastically so.

I would look at a couple of things if you go back. One, check that the half-nut and power feeds work. Two, pop the cover off the top of the QCGB with a flat-blade screwdriver and look at the gears for missing/broken teeth. Three, open the left side cover and look at all those gears for missing/broken teeth as well. Four, open the headstock cover, turn the chuck by hand and check all the teeth on the bull gear, which is the big gear closest to the chuck. Then disengage the pin that locks the spindle together so the chuck turns without moving the rest of the spindle. At that point, engage the back gear which is at the back left corner of the headstock...pull out on the knob, and rotate the handle towards you. You likely won't be able to turn the chuck by hand, but if you can power it up, check that you don't have much more than a bit of clatter/noise (there will definitely be some). That's not fatal, but requires a simple adjustment to avoid gear tooth damage. Lastly, move the tailstock as far right as you can, then run the carriage the full length from left to right a couple of times. Most wear is near the chuck since that gets used the most, so you're looking for it gliding smoothly near the chuck and then really dragging terribly near the tailstock end....signs of a lot of wear.

If it all checks out, the price should vary a lot....are there any other chucks, is the follow rest there, is there a collet adapter/closer, etc. With just what I can see, and no obvious damage or problems, around here it's probably a $1,500 machine, but in other parts of the country it's probably $2,500 since the supply is much lower.
 
G-ManBart pretty much covered the operation of the levers on the apron. As for the weight of the machine mine weighs in at a little over 1,600 lbs. I found it in Chicago and paid $2,500.00 for it in 2016. The lathe itself was rebuilt including all new bearings, a couple new gears, the ways on the bed and cross slide were ground. The previous owner supplied the receipts for all the components and grinding. He was a design engineer that worked for Furnas Electrical Controls Company. He had intimate knowledge of the machine since the company he worked for supplied all the electrical starters and controls.

My machine has a 2 hp 3 phase motor. It's been running on a static phase converter since I purchased it. As part of the deal, I also bought a 15 hp North American Rotary phase converter. The idea at the time was to install the rotary converter and use it to power all the 3 phase machines. All the machines are still running on static converters as I still procrastinate as to when (if ever) I will install the rotary.

Included with the machine were two 3 jaw chucks, a 4-jaw chuck, 2 face plates, a 5C collet drawbar and related hardware, a QCTP, a steady rest, a follow rest, dead centers, live centers, a spindle nose protector, and several more goodies I can't remember at this time. I'll check to see what else was included when I get back home later today. Since then, I've purchased several more 3 and 4 jaw chucks. The smallest is 4" and the largest is 10".

Next time you go back take a closer look at the pedestal on the tailstock end. I believe like mine it's a storage cabinet with shelves. There may be more goodies hiding inside.

I am a member of the Sheldon Lathe Group, but I don't visit the site that often. There is a wealth of information available for machines like the one you're looking at. If you join be sure to look in the files and albums areas for additional information. Here's a link to the homepage:

 
Is this machine really weighing in at 1400 lbs??

I went back and looked at a Sheldon catalog which listed shipping weights. They show the EXL56P shipping at 1,290lbs, so a bit less as it sits assuming they put it on a pallet and had boxes/crating for some of the accessories. My Sheldon is an EM56B which they list at 1,375lbs. I can lift it with a cherry picker without any trouble (cross bracing in the bed is a perfect lift point) but it's clearly got some weight to it. I chocker a lifting strap around the brace that's one left of middle (closer to the headstock) and run the carriage towards the tailstock and it balances pretty nicely. Here's a screen shot from the catalog:
SheldonSS2.jpg
 
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