- Joined
- Jun 29, 2014
- Messages
- 4,174
In the past month, we have banned two members who were caught trying to SCAM members here on Hobby Machinist. The SCAM is an old one and easy to spot but requires some work on your behalf. There were three ways the solicitation was identified as a SCAM.
First, if the method of payment is any of the following:
1) Send a postal money order,
2) ACH wire transfer,
3) Send a pre-loaded gift card or debit card,
...then, chances are high that you are going to get scammed.
The trickiest one to navigate is #1 above. USPS money orders continue to be easy and secure means to pay somebody THAT YOU KNOW and TRUST. Scammers know this and will present themselves in a way that builds trust.
Second, the scammer was outed by doing a reverse lookup of the image of the item for sale, and then stringing the scammer along with a fictitous scenario until it was revealed that the scammer tripped up over his numerous lies and couldn't produce a valid mailing address and contact info that the buyer could verify. This buyer was very clever in revealing the scammer for his real intentions - not everybody will be able or willing to do so.
In order to do a reverse image lookup. Go to Google's Reverse Image Search. Upload the photo of the image sent to you by the suspected scammer. If you find that the image is used elsewhere on the internet, it is likely the scammer lifted the photo from the site you found in your search and passing it off as their own.
Another sign you are getting scammed is getting vague, unverifiable info or mis-direction from the scammer. In this case, the scammer put off or deflected requests to send additional photos, didn't want to do a phone call or made excuses to avoid talking on the phone, didn't provide complete location information or misleading information.
At the end of it all, the H-M member strung this scammer along enough to be able to get IP addresses, and enough conflicting information to report them to the police. Scamming and phishing attempts overwhelm law enforcement and the vast majority of these cases go dormant due to lack of resources and evidence to prosecute. After getting banned, the scammer tried to register again on H-M. Our SPAM detection software flagged his prior IP addresses and prevented him from getting back into the site to do further damage.
While this post is not meant to be a how-to guide, it is meant to inform members here that scammers use creative and deceptive tactics to take your hard earned money and leave you high and dry. This scammer used a few deceptive techniques to try and scam one of our own here: he joined as a member, responded to a post in a sub-forum about a machine he claimed to have for sale, passed off legitimate images as his own and used communication tactics to try and wear down the potential victim to the point of handing over money using one of the tactics listed above.
There is no sure-fire way of knowing if you are being scammed, but you can do somethings to protect yourself:
1) Slow down and do your research. Do not succumb to being pressured into handing over money. If you are being rushed into sending money by any means necessary, that is a sign you are being scammed.
2) Ask the person to talk on the phone. You can ask questions that may reveal whether you are dealing with a scammer or not. For example, scammers may tell you their fake location and you can ask them questions to reveal whether they really know the area or not. Or ask them to take a photo of the equipment with a time stamp and send it to you while you are on the phone with them and have them talk details about the machine or parts.
3) Use the Google Reverse Image Search. While not foolproof, immediate hits on your search suggest a scam right away.
4) Get the scammer to provide phone numbers, names, emails and addresses prior to talking money. String them along if you suspect it is a SCAM. Get them to trip up and get caught in a lie. A person who is legit and wants to sell you something legitimately will willingly talk to you and provide clear, honest information from the beginning. If it takes too much effort to get COMPLETE information up front from the seller, it is likely a scam.
5) If you find yourself willing to hand over money, use a secure online payment system that protects buyers - PayPal has a good track record of protecting buyers. Credit card companies have good fraud detection as well, but can be a hassle in getting things corrected on your statements and from a credit reporting standpoint. While not perfect, PayPal is a good choice to protect you financially if things go badly.
Lastly, these scammers responded to "WANT to BUY" or "WANT to TRADE" posts on Hobby Machinist. This is a common problem on Craigslist as well and scammers go after people who are looking to part with their money. Ask for references from the seller and check those references, do an online search if it is a business. Buyer beware! As part of our ongoing improvements to the site, the staff is considering changes to permissions to prevent new members with minimal activity from posting or responding to these threads. More to come on this in the coming days and weeks.
First, if the method of payment is any of the following:
1) Send a postal money order,
2) ACH wire transfer,
3) Send a pre-loaded gift card or debit card,
...then, chances are high that you are going to get scammed.
The trickiest one to navigate is #1 above. USPS money orders continue to be easy and secure means to pay somebody THAT YOU KNOW and TRUST. Scammers know this and will present themselves in a way that builds trust.
Second, the scammer was outed by doing a reverse lookup of the image of the item for sale, and then stringing the scammer along with a fictitous scenario until it was revealed that the scammer tripped up over his numerous lies and couldn't produce a valid mailing address and contact info that the buyer could verify. This buyer was very clever in revealing the scammer for his real intentions - not everybody will be able or willing to do so.
In order to do a reverse image lookup. Go to Google's Reverse Image Search. Upload the photo of the image sent to you by the suspected scammer. If you find that the image is used elsewhere on the internet, it is likely the scammer lifted the photo from the site you found in your search and passing it off as their own.
Another sign you are getting scammed is getting vague, unverifiable info or mis-direction from the scammer. In this case, the scammer put off or deflected requests to send additional photos, didn't want to do a phone call or made excuses to avoid talking on the phone, didn't provide complete location information or misleading information.
At the end of it all, the H-M member strung this scammer along enough to be able to get IP addresses, and enough conflicting information to report them to the police. Scamming and phishing attempts overwhelm law enforcement and the vast majority of these cases go dormant due to lack of resources and evidence to prosecute. After getting banned, the scammer tried to register again on H-M. Our SPAM detection software flagged his prior IP addresses and prevented him from getting back into the site to do further damage.
While this post is not meant to be a how-to guide, it is meant to inform members here that scammers use creative and deceptive tactics to take your hard earned money and leave you high and dry. This scammer used a few deceptive techniques to try and scam one of our own here: he joined as a member, responded to a post in a sub-forum about a machine he claimed to have for sale, passed off legitimate images as his own and used communication tactics to try and wear down the potential victim to the point of handing over money using one of the tactics listed above.
There is no sure-fire way of knowing if you are being scammed, but you can do somethings to protect yourself:
1) Slow down and do your research. Do not succumb to being pressured into handing over money. If you are being rushed into sending money by any means necessary, that is a sign you are being scammed.
2) Ask the person to talk on the phone. You can ask questions that may reveal whether you are dealing with a scammer or not. For example, scammers may tell you their fake location and you can ask them questions to reveal whether they really know the area or not. Or ask them to take a photo of the equipment with a time stamp and send it to you while you are on the phone with them and have them talk details about the machine or parts.
3) Use the Google Reverse Image Search. While not foolproof, immediate hits on your search suggest a scam right away.
4) Get the scammer to provide phone numbers, names, emails and addresses prior to talking money. String them along if you suspect it is a SCAM. Get them to trip up and get caught in a lie. A person who is legit and wants to sell you something legitimately will willingly talk to you and provide clear, honest information from the beginning. If it takes too much effort to get COMPLETE information up front from the seller, it is likely a scam.
5) If you find yourself willing to hand over money, use a secure online payment system that protects buyers - PayPal has a good track record of protecting buyers. Credit card companies have good fraud detection as well, but can be a hassle in getting things corrected on your statements and from a credit reporting standpoint. While not perfect, PayPal is a good choice to protect you financially if things go badly.
Lastly, these scammers responded to "WANT to BUY" or "WANT to TRADE" posts on Hobby Machinist. This is a common problem on Craigslist as well and scammers go after people who are looking to part with their money. Ask for references from the seller and check those references, do an online search if it is a business. Buyer beware! As part of our ongoing improvements to the site, the staff is considering changes to permissions to prevent new members with minimal activity from posting or responding to these threads. More to come on this in the coming days and weeks.