rookie questions / advice?

[geckoejon]

hello,

i am trying to decide which route to go with my first cnc mill machine. this would be for my personal garage. i would appreciate some advice, if you all would be so kind.

my main interests would be in fabricating some metal parts, 2d possibly 3d woodworking, and acrylic etching / engraving. nothing overly large. maybe the acrylic going up to 1' x 2'.

first, is it possible to get a machine that will do all 3 of my focal points for less then 5 figures? i am hoping to find something for a couple of grand to cut my teeth on.

second, would you advise taking a cad class, possibly at a local tech shop? i am fairly decent with computers, but have not yet done any cad.

any thoughts as to a verticle vs a horizontal mill?

any machines that you would recommend me researching?

thanks!

 

[Bill Gruby]

I can only advise you on the CAD Class. If there is one near you and it doesn't cost much, by all means take it. As for what machine, I have zero knowledge on any of them.

"Billy G"

 

[Boswell]

Welcome to the forum geckoejon.

Being comfortable with computers and software will help you a lot as you learn turn your ideas into parts using a CNC machine tool. Forgive me if I am telling you things you already understand. I started in much the same place a few years ago. I think you can break a CNC project into three major components each with it's own learning curve.
1. CAD: This using software to define idea into a digital representation. I use Autocad but there are many choices and if you search this forum you will find comparative discussions around what software to use. CAD drawings can be 2D or 3D. Which to use is which situation is part of what you will have to learn. CAD is often taught at community colleges, vocational schools and probably many other venues.

2. CAM: This is using software to define how to actually make the part using the CAD drawing as source material. In other words, for a Milling project, you use CAM software to say "use this cutting tool to cut along this line" and much more complex type of instructions. The CAM software will typically output your results in what is called G-CODE. G-Code is what most (All?) CNC machines use and is a low level instruction set. It is possible to skip the CAM software and manually create G-Code. This is not hard for very simple things and is extremely advanced for complex things.

3. Machining: By this I mean not only the mechanics of producing the part such as clamping and lubrication etc but the more you know about how to approach a each operation to get the best possible result with the least effort will greatly influence steps 1 and 2 above.

Each of these steps can be accomplished with only a moderate amount of learning and practice but at the same time each of these steps can take a lifetime of experience to get really good at it (especially #3).

You will find that there are experts in all three areas on this forum and everyone is just looking for an excuse to help others so have fun, learn something and ... have fun.

 

[geckoejon]

thanks for the feedback....

i will research the possibilities of a cad and cam class.

i am going to school taking 1 class at a time anyway. i finished up my 5 yr apprenticeship for hvac 3 yrs ago, and just wanted to continue learning. i am an a/c service tech for commercial / industrial sites. job security, but not something i can do for the next 25 yrs. truthfully, the classes that i have to take to work towards a degree are boring the mess out of me. lol i might as well take some classes that i enjoy and will actually have a practical application. i really like the idea of being able to create things in my own garage.

my uncle mentioned g-code briefly. he goes all over the world setting up cnc machines. unfortunately he lives 900 miles away, or i would be trying to learn some more from him first hand. he thinks that i will pick up on machining fairly quickly. i am mechanically inclined, have half a brain, love to learn, and always need something to tweak on

hopefully, i can learn most of the machining first hand and asking lots of questions online....

 

[dracozny]

The size of materials makes it a bit difficult to find a single machine that would meet all your needs. Even the RF45 clones have a short Y Axis. That would not fit 1' x 2'. You could still achieve the work flow but it would require turning the parts around. A router style machine does 2.5D fairly well but often is not very rigid for certain types of Metal. the downside is the cost. a couple grand will get you a decent manual machine. CNC will cost you 4-10K depending on the size and type of machine you go with.

 

[Ebel440]

Definitely take a class first to see how it all works. I have taken classes and program cnc machines on a daily basis but figuring out how all the software works and getting everything to work together in a home setting is difficult for me. I can't use the software I know as the keys cost thousands. I have been slowly trying to make a cnc machine but making the machine seems like the easy part. I have started playing around with free software just to figure out how it all works together. If your good at that type of thing it may not be a problem for you. You could try downloading some programs and seeing if you can figure out how to use them.

 

[geckoejon]

dracozny, that's kind of what i was afraid of... honestly, the wood working and etching acrylic would be most enjoyable for me. metal fabrication would also be fun, and probably help pay back my investment a lot sooner as well. kind of torn in which direction i should go.

thoughts on a used machine?

do you have any machine suggestions to research in the couple grand range for...

a. a smaller workable area (maybe 1'x1' range) for metal part fabrication and wood?

b. larger workable area for etching acrylic and wood work?

i have seen several used phatprinter III's locally in my price range. they are supposed turn key setups. i'm assuming these would be decent for etching and thinner wood, but not so much for metal fabrication.

i have also seen other used machines locally, but not sure which would be good to start with for metal fabrication. horiczontal vs vertical and ect...

ebel440, thanks. i will definitely check into a class. my uncle told me the software was expensive for some applications. don't think i would spring for a couple grand in software unless i was very comfortable with machining and saw a payback in the end.

 

[dracozny]

dracozny, that's kind of what i was afraid of... honestly, the wood working and etching acrylic would be most enjoyable for me. metal fabrication would also be fun, and probably help pay back my investment a lot sooner as well. kind of torn in which direction i should go.
Go with what you will enjoy the most. no sense in getting a machine you just slave over. You can make lots of money machining plastics, woods, and light grade aluminum. If you Like RC flying, Helicopter parts can make some serious $$

thoughts on a used machine?
If you really want to get into any sort of Metal Machining I would suggest shopping around, Bridgeports can be nice depending on how worn out they are. but these are not small machines. at the hobby size it sometimes is not worth the hassle. That's not to say there are not some nice machines to be had but generally they are going to be more beat up than they are worth. due diligence is an absolute must. for CNC router machines, I have absolutely zero advice for you since I never see used machines in this category for sale.

do you have any machine suggestions to research in the couple grand range for...

a. a smaller workable area (maybe 1'x1' range) for metal part fabrication and wood?
CNC Router will easily fit this work flow but cutting anything harder than light aluminum is not possible. Velox & Romax are a few brands I have seen used, alternatively several users have built their own.
CNC Machining mills typically use a 3-5:1 ratio when sizing tables, so a 1' Y axis is most likely going to have a 3.5' X axis. we're talking Fadal sized machines here at this point.
b. larger workable area for etching acrylic and wood work?
Etching I would say a CNC router is ideal for this kind of work, you can etch metals fairly well.

i have seen several used phatprinter III's locally in my price range. they are supposed turn key setups. i'm assuming these would be decent for etching and thinner wood, but not so much for metal fabrication. These Machines are made out of wood. decent for a hobbyist but you may find them limiting later on.

i have also seen other used machines locally, but not sure which would be good to start with for metal fabrication. horiczontal vs vertical and ect...
You can do a ton of different things on both machines, they just take different tooling to achieve the same results. Horizontals really excel at gear cutting and squaring up parts in a hurry.

ebel440, thanks. i will definitely check into a class. my uncle told me the software was expensive for some applications. don't think i would spring for a couple grand in software unless i was very comfortable with machining and saw a payback in the end.

Try to find some other hobbyists in your area. prepare to have long conversations on a multitude of related subjects. Also keep in mind many Hobbyists run multiple manual machines instead of CNC. CNC is great but it's not always the most ideal solution when it comes to simple parts.

 

[geckoejon]

dracoxny, thank you very much! you and the other people here have given me a lot to research and think about. i greatly appreciate it...

i will probably sign up for a local cad class, and look for a machinist local to meet up with.

 

[rdean]

I am about 60 miles from you and currently have both a CNC mill and a 4X8 router. I work in metal, wood, plastic,and glass. You are welcome to come over to see, touch and ask questions.
Send me an e-mail

Ray