Possible first lathe: Atlas TV48

[Trc687]

Hi guys, I was hoping someone could shoot me straight. I found an ad on Craigslist for an Atlas TV48 that a guy is selling for $1100. I have a few questions though since I can't find any good info about this particular model on here or the rest of the interwebs.

1) is this a fair price assuming it is in decent shape? I haven't gotten any pictures yet but I think he will send some if I ask him. I also might be able to talk him down since the ad has been up for quite a while.

2) will I be able to find tooling and replacement parts for this?

3) is this a decent lathe for a beginner? I was looking at 9x20 models if I were to buy one new, just so you know what I am looking for.

4) can I use this lathe to do threading?

5) will I need a friend with a shop crane and a u-haul to move it, or will two strong guys and a pickup truck be enough?

6) if/when I go check it out, what in particular should I look for? I.e. Does this model have some quirks that might cause it to fail soon after I buy it, are there certain hard-to-find parts I need to make sure are still functional, etc...

I mostly plan on machining engine mounts and other assorted odds and ends for custom motorcycle frames. Thanks in advance!

 

[JimDawson]

Can you post a link to the ad. I can't find any reference to an Atlas TV48 anywhere.

 

[Trc687]

The ad itself doesn't list the make/model, it's just what he told me when I emailed him. I found a mention of a TV36 and TV48 here:

http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas/

...but that still doesn't provide any info beyond the fact that it exists.

 

[JimDawson]

Hopefully one of the other members is more enlightened than myself, and can help you out.

 

[wa5cab]

Trc687 (please sign your posts),

To take your final statement first, engine mounts sounds like mill work, not lathe work. A tongue-in-cheek description of the basic capabilities of lathes and mills is that a lathe can make square things round and a mill can make round things square. But generally not vice versa. However, Atlas did make a milling attachment for the 10" and you can actually mill small parts on it if you have all of the necessary accessories (mostly milling attachment, milling cutters, cutter holder and drawbar).

The Atlas model TV48 is one of four lengths of F-Series 10" machines built. "T" means that it has Timken spindle bearings, which is good. "V" means that it has a vertical countershaft. The 10F are 16-speed machines. The spindle and countershaft each have 4-step pulleys. The motor and countershaft have 2-step pulleys. And on the spindle and the rear of the headstock are mounted a total of 4 gears, collectively called the Back Gears. These give 2 more speeds. 4 x 2 x 2 = 16. The "48" means that the bed is 48" long. Which means that the longest workpiece that you can mount between the headstock and the tailstock is about 30". The swing over bed is 10-1/4". This means that the largest diameter workpiece that you can mount to the spindle and turn without hitting the ways is 10". Swing over carriage is 6-5/8", so you cannot work on a part that is both 10" in diameter and 30" long. All of the 10F came with back gears and both manual and power traverse (left and right) and cross feed. Earlier 10" lacked power cross feed.

1. Typical prices for machine tools in general vary considerably depending upon what part of the country you are in. But $1100 would generally be pretty high for a TV-48 unless it comes with several of the commonly needed accessories. Like 3-jaw and 4-jaw chucks, milling attachment, steady rest, taper attachment, Quick Change Tool Post, etc. For just the lathe, with countershaft, motor, full set of change gears, and in working condition, I would say that the typical price for a run of the mill un-restored 10F is in the the $400 to $600 range. To that you can add $75 to $150 for each significant accessory. Cutters don't count for much. Maybe $50 for a shoe box full.

2. Yes, easily. And yes, easily to with some difficulty or expense, depending upon what part you are referring to. The Atlas 10F was built in pretty large quantity between about 1938 and 1957. Plus it still used some parts on the 9" and earlier 10" models built from about 1932 to 1938. Total production of all models was something over 88,000. Clausing (used to be Atlas) still stocks some parts. And on any given day, you will find many parts (mostly used) advertised on eBay.

3. Yes. The minimum possible age (if it was the last one made) of the TV48 is 57 years. Long before any 9X20 reaches that age, it will probably be in a landfill.

4. Yes. Most common threads 4 to 96 TPI.

5. No, two people and a pickup or van should suffice. If it comes with a decent bench, you will probably need to separate them.

6. I'll have to finish this tomorrow, or maybe someone else will pick it up.

Robert D.

 

[Trc687]

Thanks robert! That answered most of my questions pretty succinctly. As far as millwork goes, I know I need one for axle slots and working on flat stock. The engine mounts I was referring to are basically precisely turned threaded bungs that are welded onto frame rails perpendicular to the axis of the rail. I'll have to find a picture of some of the ones I am referring to, but they are most commonly seen on 70s and 80s Japanese bikes.

Does anyone on here have one of the 10F models that could chime in? Thanks!

TC

 

[Dranreb]

Hi TC, I have a 10f with an Acorn Tools QCGB, milling attachment, steady rest, QC tool holder etc.

It does what I expect from a light lathe very well but it needed some work to get it that way.

One thing you should check is the apron traverse gearbox, this can crack if allowed to come loose, they do appear on ebay but usually a bit pricey.

If possible get one with a QCGB as they make life much easier.

You can do light milling with the attachment but it's no substitute for a mill.

Members have posted loads of info about these lathes and a few hours poking about should answer most questions, if not just ask .

I've shown most of my repairs and mods on here, just click on my username to go to my profile then click 'latest started threads'

Hope this helps,

Bernard

PS. I 'lathe milled' this from a rough sawn off-cut the other day, just as an example

 

[Wierd Harold]

I would suggest watching the 3 part series by tubalcain titled "Buying a Lathe" on Youtube or through his web page.
tubalcain aka mrpete222

HWF

 

[wa5cab]

TC,

The traverse (which means moving the carriage to the left or right) gearbox is attached to the hidden face of the apron. The apron is the vertical front part of the carriage, held to the saddle with two (usually Phillips head) machine screws. To get at that gearbox, you will have to first remove the lead screw and then remove the apron. It probably is not a practical thing to do during the inspection.

Before going to look at the machine, you should download the 10F parts list from Downloads. However, to have access to Downloads, you have to have either 30 posts or be a donor (long story as to why, which I won't go into here). You are a ways from 30 so I would encourage you to make a small donation. But if you can't do that right now, PM me your email address and I will send you the PDF.

Short list of things to check.

Bed wear in the region near the headstock, say 6" to the right of it. To do this, mic the way thickness near the front edge near the headstock and near the right end of the bed. Original should have been 0.3750" but use the figure near the right end as original. Mic the width of the rear way in the two locations. Wear is the difference between the right end measurements and the near-the-headstock ones. If either wear is greater than about 0.005", the bed probably needs to be reground. This is fairly expensive.

Condition of the FWD-OFF-REV gearbox in front of the headstock. Note that it uses dog clutches and you may need to rotate the spindle to shift it.

Check that a full set of change gears is present. See the parts list for a list. And don't forget to count the ones mounted on the left end of the lathe. Note that there are two of a few of them.

Check for slop in the countershaft bearings with the belts slack.

Check for end float in the spindle (this is adjustable but if there is any end float, the runout check is meaningless)

Check the spindle runout (remove chuck and put a dial indicator on the narrow band between the spindle threads and the flange or shoulder on the right end of the spindle. Should be under .001".

Have the seller go through the lubrication routine (download the lube chart in Downloads) and then run the lathe. Confirm that power feed (traverse) and power cross feed both work. Confirm that the lathe runs OK in back gear.

Buy a copy of the Atlas Manual of Lathe Operations (best source is eBay) dated 1937 with Chapter 7 covering the Atlas F-Series 10". You will probably have to ask each seller about this as none of them seem to know that there were about five different 1937 versions. Read the two files in Downloads on the MOLO so that you know what you are looking for.

Otherwise watch the video mentioned previously for things to check that cover a lot of early US built lathes.

Robert D.

 

[Trc687]

Hi guys! Just an update on this one... I spoke to the owner again and I am waiting for pictures. He says it comes with all "attachments" that it came with originally. I am also waiting for clarification on what "attachments" those are and if they would include the milling fixture.

However, there is no bench included. What have you guys done to improvise benches? I am a decent welder, so making one out of angle iron or box tubing is a definite option, but I don't know if it would be stable enough and able to handle the unit's vibration. Thanks guys!

tC