PM 949 Rec'd and Waiting for Power

[Kamloopsendo]

Finally received my PM 949 in late June (I had originally ordered the 935 primarily 'cause I thought space would be an issue but it really isn't) Thanks to some hints from Chevy about handling it with an engine hoist and a rented fork truck it went in to my shop relatively easily.
.

The truck was supposed to be small but this is what they dropped off, the Mast cleared the shop door by less than 2 inches (5 cm up here in Canada).
We did (my buddy Terry and I) get it basically into place with the truck but it was a bit tight maneuvering in my shop and with limited ceiling height (10 ft) could not use the fork truck to lift it off the pallet. The only real issue was that I have a hydraulic motorcycle lift built into my shop floor (it is heavy with a 5" ram and 2 x 3 x1/8" tubing frame but the truck weighed about 10,000# empty so with the mill on the forks (2,200 Lbs extra) I was putting probably 4 to 5 thousand lbs on each front wheel which drove over the lift. The lift handled it but did compress a bit when I drove onto it and I tweaked the 1/8" sheet metal deck where it overlapped the concrete floor (the lift is built into the shop floor so drops flush with the concrete). As a result Terry and I spent an hour driving back and forth over the deck of the hoist later to "bend" it back to correct shape which actually did work out fine in the end.

As I could not lift the mill off the pallet with the fork truck we incrementally cut the pallet out from under it bit by bit using the engine hoist to stabilize it. Once off the pallet I realized it was too tight to the back wall and that if rotated a bit I could pull my lathe out from the corner to get easier access around it. So back with the Engine hoist and gently with pry bar under the base managed to slowly walk the mill to where it would finally sit.

As you can see the legs of the engine hoist are bloody close together and to get the lift point over the mill where it needed to be I was only able to nudge the mill less than in inch per lift so took a while to get into it's final position below.

You might note that the mill is rotated slightly so at full extension I can walk between the end of it's table and the head end of the lathe. You might also note there is no provision for power so far. The mill has been in this spot for a month while we were gone on holidays. Back now I have a pile of parts including an Hitachi VFD from Matt at QMT. I have followed David in Langley and Chevy in Trinidad Tobago's threads so have a basic (VERY) understanding of what I have to do. I'm not really sure why everyone seems to put in a double pole breaker to provide 220V single phase power in the enclosure so maybe I'm missing something?. I'm planning to use 120 AC thru a 5 amp single pole breaker to drive the 12V and 24V power supplies (the enclosure fan is 24V and the tach 12V) and provide a 120V duplex circuit for plug in's so everything powers up when I power up the enclosure. My plan is to provide a very simple control circuit as per Mark Jacobs 3 Wire Mill Control set up.
I really liked Mark Jacob's tach set up so plan to ultimately drive a tach with an attached ring light as per one of his posts. At the rate I seem to move this might take a while.
At this point I have a large pile of electrical stuff laid out on my motorcycle lift as I start to build the power supply enclosure and the control panel.

I'll post more when I get some of this put together over the next month. ANY thoughts or comments are more than welcome.
Alex

 

[Janderso]

Nice mill you dog.

 

[[X]Outlaw]

Congrats Alex! She's a beauty of a machine. I'll be happy to help you with any questions you have.

As for the double pole 220v breaker; I have a 220v 30a class cc double ploe fuse holder to protect the VFD.

The double pole 220v breaker in my enclosure takes in 220v then on the output side each leg is then split to provide two 110v rails, to do this you must pull a neutral wire into your enclosure.

Hope this helps
Chevy

 

[Kamloopsendo]

Congrats Alex! She's a beauty of a machine. I'll be happy to help you with any questions you have.

As for the double pole 220v breaker; I have a 220v 30a class cc double ploe fuse holder to protect the VFD.

The double pole 220v breaker in my enclosure takes in 220v then on the output side each leg is then split to provide two 110v rails, to do this you must pull a neutral wire into your enclosure.

Hope this helps
Chevy

Thanks for the thoughts Chevy, I do have the 30 amp fuse block to protect the VFD and never considered using the two legs off the double pole breaker separately and I have pulled a 3 wire + ground into the enclosure so have the neutral and ground wires.
Alex

 

[Kamloopsendo]

Nice mill you dog.

Thanks, now all I need to figure out is how to use it (after getting power to it)

 

[mksj]

Per what Chevy outlined, see attached schematic as an example. On a mill you often want at least two duplex 120VAC sockets, one socket for each drive axis, DRO and in some cases coolant if 120VAC. So you pull in 3 wire power (L1, L2 and N) plus a ground so you can peel off two 120 VAC circuits and each duplex socket is power by one side of the main power, both share a common ground and a neutral. The 12/24VDC power supplies are typically universal power so anything from 100-240VAC works, I typically power them from 240VAC (L1 and L2). Even though a 60-100W power supply may not require much current when running, they do have a high inrush current when powered up which will trip smaller breakers. So the manufactures recommend using a 15A breaker to prevent the breaker from tripping. I had this problem recently were a 3A 240VAC breaker was used, and although the breaker would not fully trip as if a short, it would be enough to stop working on power up.

Mill 3 wire control schemas.

Also should note about the motor wiring for the 935 and 949 mills (they both use the same constant Hp, 2 speed motors), I recommend wiring the VFD to the low speed 4(8)p terminals and over speeding the motor to 120Hz. So you direct wire the VFD to the motor terminals U1, V1, W1 and U2, V2, W2 have NO connections. The chart below is a bit confusing, as the wire rows are flipped L to R, use the connections on the right. This will give you more low end torque/Hp, with the same motor speed range which will top out at around 3500 RPM. Do NOT use the stock motor switch with a VFD.

 

[Kamloopsendo]

Per what Chevy outlined, see attached schematic as an example. On a mill you often want at least two duplex 120VAC sockets, one socket for each drive axis, DRO and in some cases coolant if 120VAC. So you pull in 3 wire power (L1, L2 and N) plus a ground so you can peel off two 120 VAC circuits and each duplex socket is power by one side of the main power, both share a common ground and a neutral. The 12/24VDC power supplies are typically universal power so anything from 100-240VAC works, I typically power them from 240VAC (L1 and L2). Even though a 60-100W power supply may not require much current when running, they do have a high inrush current when powered up which will trip smaller breakers. So the manufactures recommend using a 15A breaker to prevent the breaker from tripping. I had this problem recently were a 3A 240VAC breaker was used, and although the breaker would not fully trip as if a short, it would be enough to stop working on power up.

Mill 3 wire control schemas.

Also should note about the motor wiring for the 935 and 949 mills (they both use the same constant Hp, 2 speed motors), I recommend wiring the VFD to the low speed 4(8)p terminals and over speeding the motor to 120Hz. So you direct wire the VFD to the motor terminals U1, V1, W1 and U2, V2, W2 have NO connections. The chart below is a bit confusing, as the wire rows are flipped L to R, use the connections on the right. This will give you more low end torque/Hp, with the same motor speed range which will top out at around 3500 RPM. Do NOT use the stock motor switch with a VFD.

View attachment 273239

Thanks for the thoughts Mark, I had in particular wondered about which set of contacts to hook up on the mill so you sorted that out for sure. And, to be honest I had really not counted the number of duplex outlets I'd require on this enclosure so good point, I also would have used a 3 amp breaker to feed the 12V and 24V power supplies so again, thanks for the heads up+. One question that is both of my DC power supplies show infeed connections for a main (power) a neutral and a ground. Which would imply to me that with N. American power supplies they should be hooked up to one leg of the 220V AC power supply (120V) and a neutral (plus the ground connection). Your diagram shows L1 and L2 from the 220V power into these units (ie a hot lead into the neutral connection) is there an advantage here over simply running one leg (and thus 120V AC) and a neutral to these power supplies.
And once again, thanks for taking the time to help, I have learned so much from your posts.
Alex

 

[mksj]

The power supplies can take a wide range of input voltages, but check the specific model instructions as to the connections. I tend to either use the MeanWell NDR-75-24 or 12 power supplies or the Automation Direct PSB series, usually 60W. I do not like to use anything larger (or smaller), to minimize risk to wiring if there is a short. If one uses an incandescent/Halogen low voltage bulb, then you would need 75-120W power supply and heavier wire. On all these power supplies, the N can be connected to either neutral, or the other half of the 120 VAC (L2), L1 goes to the L1 terminal. Ground is always a separate terminal and must not be omitted. You can use neutral and L1 or power from both side (L1 and L2) of the breaker instead of one side. This will decrease the inrush amperage across both sides of the breaker instead of just one side. Not really a problem, unless there are other items plugged in that also may have an inrush current and trip the breaker.

Not a problem to help, always a bit confusing if you haven't done it before, I also learn by other's comments and try to share this moving forward. Attached are the suggested programming parameters for a 3 Hp motor with 3 wire control. On a recent mill build I added a switch for 1 stage (1.2 second) braking and 2 stage braking (3 second), the single stage being used for tapping where on desires quick stops. I can provide details if it is something of interest. Lots of different options.
Mark

 

[Kamloopsendo]

The power supplies can take a wide range of input voltages, but check the specific model instructions as to the connections. I tend to either use the MeanWell NDR-75-24 or 12 power supplies or the Automation Direct PSB series, usually 60W. I do not like to use anything larger (or smaller), to minimize risk to wiring if there is a short. If one uses an incandescent/Halogen low voltage bulb, then you would need 75-120W power supply and heavier wire. On all these power supplies, the N can be connected to either neutral, or the other half of the 120 VAC (L2), L1 goes to the L1 terminal. Ground is always a separate terminal and must not be omitted. You can use neutral and L1 or power from both side (L1 and L2) of the breaker instead of one side. This will decrease the inrush amperage across both sides of the breaker instead of just one side. Not really a problem, unless there are other items plugged in that also may have an inrush current and trip the breaker.

Not a problem to help, always a bit confusing if you haven't done it before, I also learn by other's comments and try to share this moving forward. Attached are the suggested programming parameters for a 3 Hp motor with 3 wire control. On a recent mill build I added a switch for 1 stage (1.2 second) braking and 2 stage braking (3 second), the single stage being used for tapping where on desires quick stops. I can provide details if it is something of interest. Lots of different options.
Mark

It's Getting late Mark, thanks for the thoughts, at this point I'm trying to keep it fairly simple so I think for now I'll pass on adding the optional braking switch. To be honest I've never in my life used a mill for anything, I've run across many instances where I know I could have done/made something myself if I had one and so given where I"m at I want something fairly simple to operate. I figure if the need arises later I can always modify things.

I anticipate using LED lighting so power demands should be pretty moderate and the lubrication system probably as simple as a Kool Mist set up at least initially and I have Lots of compressed air handy for that.

I tempted to simply run the 12 & 24 V DC power supplies (one Rhino 60 Watt 24V and one Meanwell EDR-75-12) off one 15 amp single pole breaker (120V) as 15 amps is 3 times the max running load and run the two pole 15 amp to power the two duplex outlets. The only thing off the 12 V will be likely the tach and off the 24V the fan which should not fire up on startup at any rate. There will be some of the LED lighting possibly a ring light but for the peripheral stuff I was thinking I'd use low voltage stuff fed off one of the duplex outlets. Three of these are dedicated to the two drives (x and Z axis) and the DRO. Maybe I should wire up three duplex outlets just to make life simple in the future.

One real decision I have to resolve is where to put the control panel and DRO interface. I'm right handed so would like them on that side but also short and not sure I want to have to lean across the table to access the switches. Chevy's approach seems very convenient but I worry about damage from oil and debris (I know he doesn't seem to think this is an issue tho'). I don't have to sort this right now but it is on my mind.

Again thanks for the feedback, I"m feeling pretty comfortable with this project at this point knowing there is intelligent experienced back up out there to second guess me.
Alex

 

[Kiwi Canuck]