PM 935TS ordered. Need guidance on VFD components and installation.

litewings

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2019
Messages
122
Ordered the 935TS with a 3 phase motor and need to get things ordered for the VFD installation. AC electrical is a definite weak point of mine so help is needed. I did the VFD install on my PM-1340GT a couple years ago with help from this forum and especially Mark Jacobs. That project went well and has been working with no problems. For the mill, Mark has already suggested in another thread the Teco L510 or E510 or Automation Direct GS20/21 series. I don't know differences between these. I'm guessing at this point I need to decide what controls I want/need. I have decided to go with braking and will need the external resistor for this. Is it two stage braking as it is on the lathe or just a single stage? Speed control on my lathe is a 270 degree input and I use about a third of its travel. Have read it other threads a three turn control on mills? Seems excessive. Am I missing something? Jog function needed? I do use it frequently on the lathe. A spindle tach would be great also but would probably add it later so what needs to be considered now for that? I will be installing two power feeds and three axis DRO now and possibly the third power feed later . Really like how Cletus built VFD and AC outlets into the base of the machine. Lots of questions. First mill and second VFD installation. Suggestions and guidance appreciated.
 
A 3-turn pot would drive me crazy. On my 935, the pot for speed control is one-turn and that's plenty of control IMO. "Jog" is not precisely what you want on a mill - at least if you're using the lathe Jog as a reference. I have a Joystick jog function on my PM-1340 that outputs a fixed frequency, but on the mill, I wanted momentary push buttons specifically for tapping.

The photo below is the control box attached to the side of the J-head on my 935 - note the momentary tapping buttons in the lower right (green is forward, red is reverse). This way I have the full range of speeds available for tapping which is helpful with varying materials, tap styles and diameters. In back gear at 55 RPM this mill will easily drive a 1" tapered (ever enlarging) NPT tap into 3/8" 1018. These tapping switches are part of the VFD control system that Mark designed and built for my mill.

The system also includes a sensor that knows when the back gear is engaged and reverses direction automatically for the spindle motor, and a proximity stop sensor on the quill that will auto reverse when the depth stop is triggered (helpful for production tapping).

I wouldn't be without a tach on a mill - dialing in feeds and speeds is impossible without one. I look at my tach all the time to set the proper speed for a given cutter based on my feed/speed calcs. The tach on my system is one I built from a kit and integrated into the control box you see below. The sensor for the tach is part of the quill ring light system which is fully documented here. If you wanted just a quill ring light without the tach sensor integrated, attached are drawings for that that fit the 935 quill - this is the same design, just with the tach sensor elements (and height for it) removed.

ControlBox.jpg
 

Attachments

  • Low-Profile Ring Light Drawing v10.pdf
    617.9 KB · Views: 170
What voltage/power is needed for the tach system? Haven't started looking at those yet. VFD braking needed or just use the standard mill brake? I see that the momentary switches would be better for tapping than the jog function speed wise. I won't need auto-reversing. Can always add that later if needed. I have done more researching on VFD's and getting some of that sorted out. I'm not in a huge rush yet I don't expect to see the machine until February.
 
My Tach as well as my relay control system and spindle halo-light all use 12vdc. I am using the Hitachi WJ200-022SF VFD and I bought this braking resistor and stuff for it. The system works well for me


 
Last edited:
There are a number of very good VFD's, the lower priced ones (under $200) tend to lack features and also some (like the L510) do not support an external braking resistor. Recommended would be the 3 HP single phase input Teco E510, Hitachi WJ200, Automation Direct GS21 and Yaskawa GA500 series, I have done installs with all these models and they have all performed well. Availability has been an issue, the Hitachi WJ200-022SF has been out of stock with most vendors, although it is probably the most commonly used VFD in the 935 mills. Price wise they are all within $100 range of each other. How they operate and the program parameters are quite different, this also comes into play if you want to use the JOG function with what is called 3 wire control. I am working with another forum member who is setting up a WJ200 for his 935 with both 3 wire and JOG as well as a back gear sensor, need to see if it actually works when he gets his VFD. Tech. support is not very helpful when I asked if the JOG inputs work with 3 wire control. There are ways to do it, just depends on the VFD model and the circuit design/programming.

On the mill I typically use 3 wire control which is a momentary switch for START, STOP and a sustained switch for REVERSE. Also mills with back gear forward is switched to reverse in back gear, I add a small switch activated in back gear that reverse the the VFD directions in back gear. I have a number of different designs but they vary by VFD manufacturer. David's system (as well as my mill) use 2 wire control with momentary buttons that latch relays, it is a more complicated design. The run buttons are in a pod attached to the knee. I do not use a JOG function on my mill because I use spiral taps and thread in one pass, otherwise I just hand tap (it fits into the chuck). You also can just turn down the speed pot, power tap through and then just flip the FOR/REV switch and back out the tap. I have setup mine to auto reverse, ideally you want to use a shorter braking time when tapping, otherwise it is 3 seconds unless the E-Stop is pressed.

I can provide you with suggestions on a parts list. On most modern era 4P mill motors, I run them from 20-120Hz and vector motors to 200Hz, so I usually like the 3 turn mil-spec pots over the wider range. I also find that a lot of the cheaper single speed pots to either fail, or not hold speed stability as the vibration from the machine can bounce the wiper. I usually use mil-spec. speed pots made by ETI, Spectral, etc. that are wire wound/composite film and rated for millions of cycles. I have a 10 turn on my mill, it came that way from the factory. Also problem with a single turn (in some cases) if you change the speed too quickly you can get a VFD fault from an over voltage spike trying to change the speed too quickly. There are some program parameter changes which can minimize these issues.
ETI MW22B-3-5K 1W 3 5Kohms Turn Wire wound Potentiometer https://www.ebay.com/itm/201057249723
ETI SP22E-2K 1W 2Kohms 1 turn conductive plastic https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/ETI-Systems/SP22E-2K?qs=wuXwK9wHm9tJD5TtBzWetA==

You can read up on the VFD's, when you get closer to ordering/building, I can provide some designs and parameters. There are lots of posts on the 935 and VFD installs, I would review what others have done and then go from there.
 
There are a number of very good VFD's, the lower priced ones (under $200) tend to lack features and also some (like the L510) do not support an external braking resistor. Recommended would be the 3 HP single phase input Teco E510, Hitachi WJ200, Automation Direct GS21 and Yaskawa GA500 series, I have done installs with all these models and they have all performed well. Availability has been an issue, the Hitachi WJ200-022SF has been out of stock with most vendors, although it is probably the most commonly used VFD in the 935 mills. Price wise they are all within $100 range of each other. How they operate and the program parameters are quite different, this also comes into play if you want to use the JOG function with what is called 3 wire control. I am working with another forum member who is setting up a WJ200 for his 935 with both 3 wire and JOG as well as a back gear sensor, need to see if it actually works when he gets his VFD. Tech. support is not very helpful when I asked if the JOG inputs work with 3 wire control. There are ways to do it, just depends on the VFD model and the circuit design/programming.

On the mill I typically use 3 wire control which is a momentary switch for START, STOP and a sustained switch for REVERSE. Also mills with back gear forward is switched to reverse in back gear, I add a small switch activated in back gear that reverse the the VFD directions in back gear. I have a number of different designs but they vary by VFD manufacturer. David's system (as well as my mill) use 2 wire control with momentary buttons that latch relays, it is a more complicated design. The run buttons are in a pod attached to the knee. I do not use a JOG function on my mill because I use spiral taps and thread in one pass, otherwise I just hand tap (it fits into the chuck). You also can just turn down the speed pot, power tap through and then just flip the FOR/REV switch and back out the tap. I have setup mine to auto reverse, ideally you want to use a shorter braking time when tapping, otherwise it is 3 seconds unless the E-Stop is pressed.

I can provide you with suggestions on a parts list. On most modern era 4P mill motors, I run them from 20-120Hz and vector motors to 200Hz, so I usually like the 3 turn mil-spec pots over the wider range. I also find that a lot of the cheaper single speed pots to either fail, or not hold speed stability as the vibration from the machine can bounce the wiper. I usually use mil-spec. speed pots made by ETI, Spectral, etc. that are wire wound/composite film and rated for millions of cycles. I have a 10 turn on my mill, it came that way from the factory. Also problem with a single turn (in some cases) if you change the speed too quickly you can get a VFD fault from an over voltage spike trying to change the speed too quickly. There are some program parameter changes which can minimize these issues.
ETI MW22B-3-5K 1W 3 5Kohms Turn Wire wound Potentiometer https://www.ebay.com/itm/201057249723
ETI SP22E-2K 1W 2Kohms 1 turn conductive plastic https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/ETI-Systems/SP22E-2K?qs=wuXwK9wHm9tJD5TtBzWetA==

You can read up on the VFD's, when you get closer to ordering/building, I can provide some designs and parameters. There are lots of posts on the 935 and VFD installs, I would review what others have done and then go from there.
Thanks for the info. Will continue studying setups. At this moment, I would like all my controls and tach in as small of a box possible on the Left side of the head (as viewed as operator). I did find the Hitachi WJ200 in stock at a supplier yesterday. Didn't order it yet. Will narrow down what I want for controls first. At this time I'm thinking standard forward/reverse, momentary switch joystick for forward and reverse for tapping and a 1 turn speed control. Joystick seems to make sense to me for least amount of panel area used and direction of movement like the tapping operation. Auto reverse not needed for me. I do like the idea of reversing switch on back-gear. Back to researching for now.
 
Last edited:
Well I'm impressed with the Machine-DRO company from the UK. Ordered the Easson 12C DRO package 5 days ago and its here today. Box was a little tough looking from the ride but all contents undamaged as far as I can tell.
 
The control concepts and implementations discussed here are impressive, but for some new folks might seem intimidating in the extreme. I want to remind everyone that our mills and lathes were designed without these system and worked very successfully for many years in their absence. The most straightforward path is get a simple and inexpensive static phase converter, which anybody reading this here can wire up, and get to making things.
 
Very true, but IMHO, Cheapest 3hp static phase converter I found on-line is $283. Cheapest 3hp VFD I found is $83 and by adding 6 more little low-voltage wires, a pot and a switch, the VFD can add so much more convenience. Plus, you probably get to learn some new stuff as well. :D
 
Back
Top