PM 728T and 1236T microshop build thread

[CliveFX]

Hey all, rather than just pepper you all with questions, I figure I will do a build log and question thread, where I can ask for input and share my journey.

A month ago, we re-finished our storage room. It was quite empty and sad. I got a workbench, and I figured that would be it for a while. Then, I went into another week of back-to-back meetings, and I realized that this just would not do, I needed a real shop. But I didn't have space for a shop!
In my 20s, I had the same problem. I bought a harbor freight 7x12, a Little Machine Shop Sieg x3 CNC and put it all in a hackerspace. I learned a ton about machining, ended up in the aerospace industry, then research. For most of the past decade, I have had access to all kinds of shop equipment. I shifted into software management 3 years ago, and it's been a rough transition. I miss making things. I am in a bit different life stage than many of you, I have almost no time, I have two young girls, and our house was picked out when I had a 10ksqft manufacturing playground at work. Now, I have nothing like that, and the most that I have is a tiny slot of a storage room.

I started this journey just thinking "I just need a drill press", and somehow I ended up watching Adam Savage review a PM728, which lead me to look at the 1232, and so on. Then I found out about electronic lead screws, etc.


So here is the build out plan:

1. PM728VT with DRO. Mods planned: I have a integrated controller servo from a old project that I will put on the Z axis. Other than that, leaving it alone.
2. PM1236T with DRO: I am having my electrical engineer friend wire it up with a VFD, and I will be integrating a 2-axis Rocketronics ELS system, with Clearpath servos.
3. Makita portaband with stand
4. 2x 3d printers. Already in hand. Bambu X1C and P1S

What my plan is with the shop:
Fact 1: Send Cut Send will always outdo you on flat or bent parts. They are an almost perfect service
Fact 2: Milling, NC milling, produces a ton of chip, noise and takes forever. Also, loose tolerance parts metal parts are easily acquired from Protolabs or JLC PCB. Loose tolerance plastic parts can fall off of the Bambu printers. I don't want that mess in my house, and I can afford to buy milled parts.
Fact 3: I have never been happy with the quotes, lead times or quality of turned parts from anyone. Therefore, I am over-investing in turning, as the supply chain for those kinds of parts is weaker.

I probably will be making astronomy equipment, telescope or camera parts, pumps, valves, rocket engines, all tiny stuff.

So the mill will be aimed at doing second op precision, +-0.002" ish work, and the lathe will be aimed at making dead-nuts parts.

Some constraints:
1. Power is kinda weak, I am dragging over a 30amp 240v line to break into 1 240v circuit for the lathe, and 2 120v circuits, 1 for the mill, 1 for ancillary equipment like the ELS setup.
2. Space is tiny, very small
3. This room also, sadly, pulls triple duty as my storage room and datacenter, hosting an AI computer and a 72tb storage array for astrophotography. All of that is in a half rack on the wall. It also means my VFD stuff needs to be very well compensated for EMI noise.
4. The space is small!
5. Access is kinda funny, I need to pull the machines over my patio, which was just lovingly crafted with natural stone pavers, so I need to buy a lot of 3/4" ply to cover
6. I will probably end up doing the moves myself with friends, because all of the equipment riggers I used in industry don't do residential!


Some questions:
1. Do you need a 1 ton hoist or a 2 ton hoist to move the 1236T around? It looks like I can do it marginally on the harbor freight 1 tonner
2. How stable is the 1236T on the stands? PM says you can build it up on dollies then lower it. Due to access, I might need to do this to do the electrical work and ELS, then dolly it against the wall, then crane or jack it down from the dollies. If it isn't stable, that sounds risky
3. I hear you can just man-handle the 728 onto the stand if you have three dudes. Is that true?


Below is the plan

 

[SouthernChap]

Well, you certainly have a plan.

Just two things spring to my mind (and bear in mind, I'm nobody's idea of an experienced, competent machinist; I'm a rank beginner).

It's hard for me to imagine a machine shop without some kind of grinding facility, even if its just a 6" two wheel bench grinder or a 1" x 42" belt sander. I don't know where you'd locate grinding in your shop. You want any grinding at least 5' away from machine tools like your lathe and mill (and of course your server rack).

Secondly:

I hear you can just man-handle the 728 onto the stand if you have three dudes. Is that true?

Sure you can and it all might go swimmingly. Then again, it might not. Humans are fallible, mishear directions, get cramp at the most inappropriate moments and hurt themselves easily, mills are awkward top heavy buggers and do not react well to being dropped.

You better pray that if any one of those three 'dudes' have 'a bad day at the office' and you value your new mill and the friendship of the other two 'dudes' it's you that screws up or/and gets hurt.

Seriously, use appropriate mechanical lifting equipment. You might still need others to help but at least they'll be doing 'light' guidance work and if you 'rig' correctly, you are unlikely to break your brand new mill or/and anybody else.

Or find machine installers that will do residential. This has the advantage of the professionals having both experience, training and skill and insurance.

 

[Just for fun]

Well, it is going to be tight. The lathe is of course top heavy but as long as you have a smooth floor I don't think you will have problems with it on dollies. I don't see that you have room for a hoist, unless your talking about one attached to the ceiling. I don't have any insight on the mill. I agree with @SouthernChap on using some sort of lifting device. I don't know your friends though.

At this stage of my life I don't have any friends that would even attempt such a task.

 

[ChazzC]

Some questions:
1. Do you need a 1 ton hoist or a 2 ton hoist to move the 1236T around? It looks like I can do it marginally on the harbor freight 1 tonner

Are you talking engine hoist? If so, those derate significantly the further you extend the boom. See @SouthernChap 's and my comments, below

2. How stable is the 1236T on the stands? PM says you can build it up on dollies then lower it. Due to access, I might need to do this to do the electrical work and ELS, then dolly it against the wall, then crane or jack it down from the dollies. If it isn't stable, that sounds risky

Mounting the lathe on a sturdy set of drawer cabinets will provide much-wanted storage. Think a pair of 36" wide heavy-duty cabinets with 4-way casters (https://a.co/d/djL3vLu) that have real leveling locks (so you can move the lathe assembly when you need to) anda thick top (https://www.mcmaster.com/9064T35) that spans both cabinets; a wider version of what James did for his Avid CNC:

Below is the plan

View attachment 510953

Well, you certainly have a plan.

Just two things spring to my mind (and bear in mind, I'm nobody's idea of an experienced, competent machinist; I'm a rank beginner).

It's hard for me to imagine a machine shop without some kind of grinding facility, even if its just a 6" two wheel bench grinder or a 1" x 42" belt sander. I don't know where you'd locate grinding in your shop. You want any grinding at least 5' away from machine tools like your lathe and mill (and of course your server rack).

Since the 1236 has a reasonable spindle bore (1-9/16"), you should have space at the left end of the headstock so you can run long stock through it (you'll also need to access the gears & drive belt, so at least one of the tool boxes/cabinets to the left will have to go somewhere else, like next to the mill?)

Secondly:


Sure you can and it all might go swimmingly. Then again, it might not. Humans are fallible, mishear directions, get cramp at the most inappropriate moments and hurt themselves easily, mills are awkward top heavy buggers and do not react well to being dropped.

You better pray that if any one of those three 'dudes' have 'a bad day at the office' and you value your new mill and the friendship of the other two 'dudes' it's you that screws up or/and gets hurt.

Seriously, use appropriate mechanical lifting equipment. You might still need others to help but at least they'll be doing 'light' guidance work and if you 'rig' correctly, you are unlikely to break your brand new mill or/and anybody else.

Or find machine installers that will do residential. This has the advantage of the professionals having both experience, training and skill and insurance.

And the Riggers will have the right equipment: if you have a large shop, with the potential of bringing in more equipment and making large parts, it makes sense to invest in material handling equipment. However, until you decide to upgrade (unlikely as you have filled the limited space) or replace (far in the future) you will have not only the cost of the MH gear but also will need to find a place to put it.

My additional thoughts in bold red ^^^^^

My small-ish shop is described here:

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/2024-shop-tour-tool-list.112190/


Please keep us updated!

 

[Ischgl99]

You definitely need a 2 ton engine hoist, once the boom is extended, you will be close to the limit even with that size. I built my own stand, so can't help with getting it on to the PM stand. You may be able to find a rental company that has something like this that you can rent and make it easier, of course with the load rating you need for the equipment. https://www.zoro.com/vestil-mobile-...4469344804040&utm_content=Vehicle Maintenance

As Chazz mentioned, you want room to the left of the lathe to put longer stock in the spindle bore. It helps with buying longer stock and not having to cut it into smaller pieces for each project, saves material. You might also have a project where you need to machine a longer piece and want to machine it close to the chuck for better rigidity. I would probably swap the mill and lathe positions.

Since you are wiring for a VFD, remove the control panel on the back of the headstock and mount it in a more accessible location, that way you don't need to worry about access to the back. You aren't going to use most of the stuff in the panel anyways with a VFD.

 

[CliveFX]

Thanks for all your advice. Still not sure if I will be able to find a machinery mover that will take small jobs, and if I am going to rent or buy the moving equipment. Would rather rent it, but it doesn't save much money over buying for 2 days of rental!

Still in the equipment purchasing phase. I have been following @mksj's posts, and I am at a crossroads on VFD choices.
It seems like he likes the Yaskawa GA500 these days, rather than the Hitachi WJ200
I have an option on a new in box WJ200-022SF for $250.
The lathe motor is only 1.5hp, is this overkill?
And if I go for the Yaskawa, does @mksj have a programming manual for it as well?

I am gong to do all PLC control, as the PLC with all the channels I want is only $550 or so, and eliminates a ton of discrete relays.

I also spent a long time going down the rabbit hole of caster leveling feet. The ones that seem best suited for the lathe add 5.5" of height, which is a lot. It would make configuring the shop very easy, but I am worried about the added height and the bed twist if I don't get the ones with aluminum feet. Still not quite sure about how to dock the lathe to final position against a wall.

 

[Ischgl99]

The lathe motor is only 1.5hp, is this overkill?

The three phase motor is 2hp, the single phase is 1.5hp. The website doesn’t say that, but I can assure you that is what came on mine.

 

[ChazzC]

I also spent a long time going down the rabbit hole of caster leveling feet. The ones that seem best suited for the lathe add 5.5" of height, which is a lot. It would make configuring the shop very easy, but I am worried about the added height and the bed twist if I don't get the ones with aluminum feet.

The final height will depend on what you put under the lathe; if you plan on using the PM stand you probably aren't going to be able to make the late mobile without adding bracing.

The leveling/locking casters are rated at 1,100 lbs. each, so if you have 4 I don't see Nylon 66 being a problem.

Still not quite sure about how to dock the lathe to final position against a wall.

Figure out how far out from the wall the base needs to be, put a steel angle against the back of the base at floor level, drill two clearance holes in the angle and base, install short bolts sticking out of the back of the base to align with the holes in the angle that you anchor to the floor.

 

[CliveFX]

Hey all, I have a few updates:

1. I ordered some carry master ac300s for the mill and the lathe. They have a 500lb rating each. This is smaller than I would like, but still has 2.5x margin on the lathe, and 3 point contact with 300lb headroom. I picked them because they are short. Short means stiff when the feet are lowered. If this ends up not working well, I will replace them with standard level feet later.

2. Went with yaksawa VFD per this message from mksj:

Hi, I usually would use the WJ200-015SF or the Yaskawa GA50UB010ABA, both are a bit less expensive. The reason I primarily use the Yaskawa VFD's is more flexibly in the programming parameters as well as the programming software is much easier to use. The JOG function in the WJ200 is a bit quirky so requires both the jog input to be active which sets the frequency and a direction input, so either requires dual switches or directional diodes so when the run commands operate they do not back feed the jog. Yaskawa has separate inputs for the jog, it also has a separate E-Stop programable input. A number of other tweaks, but they both work well and have been very reliable. I just did a 1440GT complete system build and used the GA50UB012ABA for the 3Hp motor. No need to oversize a VFD unless there are derating factors. I can provide you with a parameter set for the GA500 if you decide to use it.

 

[dabear3428]

The final height will depend on what you put under the lathe; if you plan on using the PM stand you probably aren't going to be able to make the late mobile without adding bracing.

The leveling/locking casters are rated at 1,100 lbs. each, so if you have 4 I don't see Nylon 66 being a problem.


Figure out how far out from the wall the base needs to be, put a steel angle against the back of the base at floor level, drill two clearance holes in the angle and base, install short bolts sticking out of the back of the base to align with the holes in the angle that you anchor to the floor.

negative, from experience the nylon has enough flex to make me never use them again for this application.