Newbie looking for advice

R

restorick

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Folks,

Just recently found this forum. What a great resource! I'm doing all I can to try and learn as much as I can - thank you!

I'm a 50-something year old tinkerer. Love to tear into things, fab things, make things go boom. Woodworking, metal fab, construction projects - I just love doing and doing them right.

I want to learn machining. I like being self-sufficient and now that I'm building go karts with my nephews, I want to be able to personalize some of the parts. I have some basic ideas on how to operate a lathe and mill, but have never had machines of my own to learn on.

I'd appreciate any thoughts on good starter machines. My garage shop isn't huge, and my needs for now are simple - fabricating small parts for old woodworking machinery, go karts and perhaps my Harley. I don't see myself needing a 40" lathe or a Bridgeport now. But I don't want to sell myself short either. I have 60amps in the garage and have the parts to build a 5-10hp rotary phase converter. So, if 3 phase is in my future, no worries.

Also, I don't have direct access to anyone with machine shop experience, so my learning will be lots of reading, trial and error, more reading, and hopefully, getting it right. Budget is flexible, have no fear of used/older gear if I know what to look (out) for.

So, armed with that info, I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts on good machines to look for. I'm in SE Wisconsin and am very willing to travel for a good deal and good conversation. Hell, I might even bring some Wisconsin beer or some sipping bourbon along to celebrate the occasion. :drink:

Thanks in advance for your guidance, and thanks to all for a really cool site!
Rick
 
First welcome to the forum...I'm a relative newby here myself. There are a lot of experienced machinists to answer any questions you might have. My personal all time favorite lathe for a beginner/keeper lathe is a 10" Logan with quick change gear box. They give a good bang for the buck when compared to a lot of other models.....But that's just my opinion.

Chuck
 
Opinions are like noses....some smell better than others, but here's mine, anyway. Since you mentioned a few things you would like to work on, I would recommend something a little larger than what many beginners start out on. Lots of guys go get a 7" X XX" and learn the basics of operation, and there is much merit to that approach if you're unsure about really getting into this hobby, or about what you want to machine. The principles of turning are pretty much the same no matter what size lathe you get. Smaller is just easier on the pocketbook. And sometimes you can resell your small machine and not lose much. Then you'll be in a better position to get a size suitable for the work you want. But as I said, you mentioned a few things that would make me tend to recommend something in the 12" swing area. That's about where things get much more expensive, but much more capable and more full featured. Lots of 12 x 36" size to choose from, both in the old iron, possibly as a restoration project if that's what you want to do, or as new, ready to go. Either way, be prepared to spend a good bit on all the extras it takes to actually use the machine. That will go for whatever size you get.


Same thing really on a mill. There are some pretty decent smaller imports available, judging from some of the work I see coming off them. But you can be patient and buy something someone has outgrown theirs, or buy new, or go ahead and get something as large as you think you need. Forums are a great place to learn the ins and outs of metal work, as well as some of the youtube videos out there. But as always, it's the Internet, and you know they don't allow anything untrue to be on there.
 
Gald you found us, you are why we are here. Now, I rarely get into advice on what machine because it is usually asked by the newbie. I don't because I have no clue usually what they intend to do. With that said here goes nuthin.

7 inch lathe, out of the question. You want to make Go-Carts. 9 inch lathe is again too small. 10 inch lathe, you're getting warmer. 11 inch lathe, good if you can find one but still a tad limited. My take, and I say again, my take, no less than a 12X36. It will take you anywhere you wish to go..

On to the mill, this is a tough one, there are many good ones out there for a fair price. Myself. I am partial to the Clausing 8520.

OK I hope that helped. Feel free to be more specific whenever you wish, I am always here somewhere as are many others.

"Billy G"
 
The next step is budget and space. Deturmen how much you plan to spend and how much roome you hace.
 
My $0.02 only:

I started out with a mill, but I've come to believe the learning curve is significantly harder on a mill vs. a lathe. I've made lots of scrap. That's normal, up to a point, but I think I would have been better off (less frustrated) with a lathe to start.

Within a year of putting in significant learning effort, I've come to a crossroads where buying relatively expensive and tiny accessories for my micro mill just doesn't make sense. I don't think it's wrong to start out small, but if you have the space for something a bit larger, the money to purchase it without regret, and a reasonable level of interest, I think getting something in the size range you've been recommended is sensible.

Best wishes for enjoying a fun and rewarding hobby.

Walt
 
Someone mentioned budget and space. -Good things to think about! Also give us a clue if you're leaning toward new or used. Some folks insist on "Old American Iron" for nostalgic and patriotic reasons and others are OK with import stuff. Whistle a few bars so we can pick-up on the tune.

Also, are you able to move big heavy stuff? Shop equipment comes in all shapes and sizes ranging from 100 lbs (for the micro-size stuff) up to 2000. A typical 12x36 lathe could range from 700lbs (older stuff) to 1000lbs (more current production). I agree that a 12x36 lathe is a good size that can take you where you want to go; likewise with a benchtop mill in the 800-1100 lb range. In the home-shop environment for (shall we say) "general purpose" users who are not space-limited, this is probably the median size we go with. BTW: Take no offense about what I'm saying. If you decide to go with the smaller range of equipment, that's perfectly fine and you can do some serious work there but, definitely limited to smaller things. On the up-side, the smaller stuff is easier to move around, less expensive etc... It's all good.

One other thing about going new or used... It all depends on how much you want to tinker. The number of good deals on older equipment that's not way past it's prime is becoming smaller every day. Also, it may have glitches and worn-out components that for someone without a real good mechanical background or some side-line help, is going to cause some frustration and money to set straight. It's a lot like buying a used car. Sometimes a good deal and sometimes you pay good money to take over someone else's headache.

OK, your turn... Give us a few more clues about the direction you think you're leaning toward.

Good luck & enjoy the fun..

Ray
 
I'm with Walt on this one. I think starting with a lathe is a great way to go. It will "open up the door" to basic metal working concepts, working with different metals, cutting speeds/depth, tooling, etc. Once you have gained a bit of experience on one you will have a better idea of the direction you want to go when you start looking for a mill.

I also suggest reading everything you can get your hands on. If you need suggestions for reading materials, just ask, you'll get plenty of help there as well.

-Ron
 
Thanks for all the feedback! Appreciate it greatly!

Available space isn't really an issue. My garage is large enough where I could dedicate some space for a larger lathe. Years ago I had a Logan 10" and a Hardinge horizontal mill that I was going to restore, but life got in the way and I ended up selling them to someone who could put them to good use. I had fabricated some heavy duty mobile carts so I could negotiate the space and still park vehicles. No worries on that today either.

I would prefer American iron - vintage is fine for me. But I'm also practical and if I can find a solid import in good running condition where I won't need to invest a bunch of time and money to make it work, then I'll go in that direction.

Budget? Well, that is all dependent on the machine. I prefer to cry once, so a few extra shekels to ensure that happens is well worth it. In all likelihood, I'll be divesting myself of my woodworking gear as it's not being used today and like the Logan and Hardinge before them, I'd rather see the old girls purring in someone's shop instead of collecting patina in mine.

Think I covered the questions. If not, keep firing away! And thanks again!
Rick
 
Resto,
Got any specific plans for doing stuff like live axles, spindles,discs, steerin knuckles for the karts? I think a lathe in the 12X36 size range is about right for karting. A lathe can build a mill so You would probably be better off learning to operate a lathe first then progress too a mill as stated by the others. Machine costs are usually about 1/2 of what you will ultimately have invested. You will acquire rotary tables, bits, claipers, DRO's edge finders, vices along the way and they contribute to the overall cost pretty quickly. Depending on your ultimate level of commitment to machining you can still get in pretty inexpensively and have a darn nice set up with a little time and patience. So look around for auctions and mortgage/ tax sales. Sometimes good used equipment goes for the price of scrap when no one bids because they are real estate or bank types. We are always here abouts and willling to help, so dont hesitate to jump in, ask questions, and start looking for equipment. Good luck, and welcome to the group and a new addiction. Have fun, and hope you visit often

Bob
 
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