New (to me) Dual 1249 turntable

[great white]

I've been messing around with vintage turntables for a while now. All Japanese brands from the 70s. For the most part, they all sound at least OK playing vinyl.

Yesterday, I ran across a Dual 1249 for a decent price:



Dual is German made. The 1249 is a one year model (1975), intended to commemorate Dual's 50th anniversary. It's missing a few things: dust cover (plexi cover), center pin, one of the transit lock down screws, and it supposedly is missing it's stylus although the cartridge is still there.

These are supposed to be higher end units, although just top of the middle or "mid-fi" if you want to use the audio forums slang.

It's fully automatic, meaning it will cue it's needle to the beginning and will cue it back to the stand at the end and shut off. It also has an option to repeat, just press the button and it will just keep playing the album until the power goes out.

It also has an option to "stack", meaning there's a special center post you can install, stack records on it and it will play a record, pull the tone arm back, drop the next record and repeat.

Ebay turned up a used one:



So I'll now have the stacking option.

The cartridge in it is old, but well respected. It's an ADC XLM Mk III cartridge, a TOTL moving magnet (MM) cart for it's time. I may buy a needle for it someday, but I'm going to a moving coil cartridge for better response.

Denon L-110:



That little cartridge and needle cost more than 3 times what I paid for the Dual!! Very high quality unit. Gets great reviews. Supposedly, still totally hand made in Japan.

The Denon is a High Ouput Moving Coil (HOMC) but it's still a little weak on the output voltages (approx 1.6mv) to run into a reciever/amp phono stage. You can just turn it up, but you end up with higher volume settings and if you switch to a different input...well, lets just say at a true 80watts rms per channel (and these units are known to hit far above their ratings) , my 8080DB might be able to blow the glass out of the house windows!

So phono preamp is in order:


That's a lower end one, but it gets great reviews for a budget preamp. It will step up the MC voltage to line level so I can't use the 8080db's phono inputs, but my 8080 hs multiple line in jacks, so no worries.

When the Dual gets here, first order of the day is to tear it down and give it a good cleaning and polishing. Dust, dirt, caked up grease, etc, it's all gotta go. Then it's replace worn parts, and finally adjust and get things back into spec.

That will get it up and running so I can do a good assessment on it for further repairs (if needed).

Apparently, these have a tendency for the orginial motors to go double speed on start up. So instead of 33 rpm, you get 66 pm. It seems to have something to do with Europe running on 50 hz and NA running on 60hz. Some were recalled and fixed, soe were not and some didn't experience the problem at all. There's a gent in Toronto that makes a little ciruit that eliminates the problem. If this has got the fault, I'll just order up one of those little add on circuits.

Then, it's on to modifications. Not a lot of plans there other than maybe a nice, new, heavy wooden plinth.

Now it's the waiting game for all my stuff to get here....

 

[Eddyde]

Nice score! Sounds like a fun project (pun intended)... I had a similar Dual TT way back in the day, it sounded pretty good from what I remember, but who knows what cartridge was on it, probably nothing special. That Denon should make it sing!
Curious to see the progress on this, please keep us updated!

 

[frugalguido]

I worked on Dual's back in the day and still do sometimes. You need to totally disassemble,clean and relube. There is no short cuts on Dual's. Also be very careful on the switch track arm on the cam when disassembling, there is a really small u shaped spring on it. I you don't know its there, you would loose it
.

There is a small plastic tip on the cuing plunger , that wears out, when this happens the tonearm won't move correctly in the auto function.

 

[great white]

I worked on Dual's back in the day and still do sometimes. You need to totally disassemble,clean and relube. There is no short cuts on Dual's. Also be very careful on the switch track arm on the cam when disassembling, there is a really small u shaped spring on it. I you don't know its there, you would loose it
.View attachment 444216

There is a small plastic tip on the cuing plunger , that wears out, when this happens the tonearm won't move correctly in the auto function.

Yep, the steurem-pimple…or however they spell it in german….

 

[frugalguido]

I know it started with an "S" but plastic tip thing works for me. I had a a lot of NOS parts for the Dual's but finally sold them to a guy that sells online, it was time to start selling off stuff from my 30 years in the audio business. But I still do a lot of high end audio repair work in retirement mostly amps and tuners.

 

[great white]

I know it started with an "S" but plastic tip thing works for me. I had a a lot of NOS parts for the Dual's but finally sold them to a guy that sells online, it was time to start selling off stuff from my 30 years in the audio business. But I still do a lot of high end audio repair work in retirement mostly amps and tuners.

LOL, you'd hate my 8080DB then! Ive been chasing a "protection" fault for a year now.

I didn't just recap the driver board, i rebuilt it. Caps, diodes, resistors, transistors, etc. Still wouldn't come out of protection. Needed to be done anyways as some components had "drifted" a little too much. Checked output voltages at the protection board, not the problem. Replaced output transistors with modern equivalents as both were blown in the right channel. No joy. Recapped the power board, no joy.

I finally found one transistor on the power board that was essentially performing the function of a voltage regulator that was blown.

I'm currently waiting for replacements to show up. I sure as heck hope that's the last problem.

I'm dreading the thought of there being a problem on the dolby board. Nothing I can't fix, it's just a major PITA to work on.....

 

[homebrewed]

I have an old Adcom high-output MC cartridge, feeding a home-designed/home-made preamp, installed on an Infinity Black Widow tonearm. I have it all on a direct-drive Pioneer turntable.

The cartridge is pretty old so if there are vibration-damping elastomers in it (likely) It probably sounds pretty tired. I haven't listened to it for quite awhile, to the point that I will need to re-acquire some components if I want to listen to my old vinyl.

 

[larry4406]

Those stacker spindles drop a stationary record onto a spinning record. So for split second, the two records have friction between them as the stationary record comes up to speed. Meanwhile your vinyl lathe deteriorates the records from the slippage...

I have a Dual turntable I bought around 1979/1980; not sure the model (maybe 1264? in its original box downstairs).

 

[homebrewed]

Those stacker spindles drop a stationary record onto a spinning record. So for split second, the two records have friction between them as the stationary record comes up to speed. Meanwhile your vinyl lathe deteriorates the records from the slippage...

I have a Dual turntable I bought around 1979/1980; not sure the model (maybe 1264? in its original box downstairs).

I never used an automatic drop spindle with my records so can't say one way or the other on this one. That's what my folks had. But I don't think dropping a clean record on top of another clean record would cause much of a problem. I always used a felt record-cleaning thingie (technical term on my records before lowering the cartridge down so the records were always very clean. I rarely picked up a permanent 'tick' on a record.

 

[great white]

Those stacker spindles drop a stationary record onto a spinning record. So for split second, the two records have friction between them as the stationary record comes up to speed. Meanwhile your vinyl lathe deteriorates the records from the slippage...

I have a Dual turntable I bought around 1979/1980; not sure the model (maybe 1264? in its original box downstairs).

Not exactly.

The center label stands proud of the playing surface. Drop one record (level) on to another and the labels contact first. They're made that way on purpose, mostly so if you set the record down on the table, the sound grooves don't get damaged (or at least give it a chance not to damage the grooves). There's also the air cushion that is formed between the two parallel surfaces that slows contact as the record falls. Won't do anything to accelerate the record, but it does lessen the impact force. Lastly, the sound is down in the groves, not at the top of the crests. So even if the vinyl contacts vinyl, it's highly unlikely to damage it.

Stackers are useful if you have a bunch of people over and want to have some music in the background. Stack up the albums you want to hear and let it go. Or, load up something like the Springsteen box set and let it play them all. When it's done, flip the stack over and play the other sides. Great if you're doing your chores around the house.

Certainly not an ideal setup though as the "stacked" record can get induced vibrations since it's not sitting on the platter mat but rather on a slippery surface. There's also the change in VTA as the stacked record requires the tone arm to ride at a different angle, changing the angle the needle rides in the grooves. This can change the sound reproduction in a couple ways, none of them good.

But damage? Far more likely to damage your vinyl with a worn or poorly aligned cartridge/stylus, not setting the tracking weight properly, messing up things like antiskate, or not properly cleaning them.

Me? I'll probably only use it once or twice. Just to prove to myself that it works. I'm like that with most of my vintage equipment (lathe, sewing machine, vehicles, record players, etc); if it had an option available when it was first sold or specific owner/service manuals, I want it in my collection, mostly because I just want it complete.