Need Motor wiring diagram for Hardinge TL

[hey-bear]

I am in the process of getting a TL lathe. I plan to replace the 3 phase motor with a 2.5 HP DC motor. I know that the lathe has a High-Low-Brake switch handle.
A wiring diagram and/or pictures would be helpful.
The DC motor has a speed control and I could add a reversing switch, but would rather use the lathe reversing mechanics to accomplish that.

 

[W6PUG]

I have one! I got one from Jim S when I was restoring mine, so it is only fair to pass it on. Same as T-10. I tried to attach the file (<500k), but I get a red exclamation point for some reason and it does not appear in my attachment list, [ HOWEVER it appears as a thumbnail attachment :thinking: so email me if you cannot read it, and I can send you the file and others I have as well if you need them... [ddjohnson@cox.net]

 

[hey-bear]

Thanks. Got it OK.

Herb K5AT

I have one! I got one from Jim S when I was restoring mine, so it is only fair to pass it on. Same as T-10. I tried to attach the file (<500k), but I get a red exclamation point for some reason and it does not appear in my attachment list, [ HOWEVER it appears as a thumbnail attachment :thinking: so email me if you cannot read it, and I can send you the file and others I have as well if you need them... [ddjohnson@cox.net]

 

[itsme_Bernie]

I wonder if this is the same as the TM mill? 3/4-3/8 Hp two speed motor?


Bernie

 

[W6PUG]

Bernie, Hardinge was making these toward the tail end of WWII, and they were making several models and making them very fast to meet the war effort - to the point that they were not even serialized by type - they just gave the next serial number to the next one going out the door regardless of model (if I heard the story right) ... my guess is that they were not spending a lot of time making the controls (which are really simple anyway) different for different models if there was no physical demand for it to be different. There are no electronic components which were load-limited that I can see - just mechanical contact arrangement. Am fairly sure the same scheme would work as long as there is not a big step-change in the size (load) of the lathe .... Hardinge during that era is hard to research ... there is so little documentation on mine that I could never have gotten the thing together were it not for other guys on this net like Jim S ... only way you will find out is to ask ...hope the diagram works for you. I think it works for TL and the T5/T10 variants of it. Again, everything I have picked up is from someone else.

On mine, I took all of that off the machine (note the bottom lever is missing from the pix), put it in a box, and put a TeCo N3 on it - simple to wire, and I get variable speed, reversing, start/stop and phase conversion all in one box and about an hour of work, and it works GREAT! There is also a place where you can put in various resistor values for dynamic braking - I just haven't done it because I am not on a timeline where I need the thing to instantly lock up ... I kept all the mechanical parts of the switch (in the afore-mentioned box), but the N3 made life a lot easier. Speed knob could be a little bigger, but I could always wire an external one if it were really important to me (and it isn't really). Will try to attach pix of it. Maybe this will give you some ideas of some options. Take care/hope this helps.

 

[W6PUG]

Yours might be in working order, but my mechanical brake and all of that was disassembled, and when I started to hook all of that up with the switching and such - and then decided I would go Teco N3 - I threw the brake parts in the same box and in storage ... my first impression when I started hooking all of that up in the beginning was that it would be a real exercise in tweaking to get all of the parts between switching and braking and running in synch and proper adjustment ... I just wanted to use the lathe, so maybe that might be something to consider as well. Depends upon the level of restoration you want to achieve ... for me, I wanted a very usable decent quality lathe .... am pretty sure brake will come into play with the reversing. You can accomplish same with dynamic braking with resistor values in the N3. Not trying to convince you either way, but I kind of subscribe to Ben Franklin logic: when he had to make a decision, he would split a piece of paper in half, and on one half he would write the advantages (pro's) and the other side would be the disadvantages (con's), and whichever list was longer was his yea or nay .... anyway ... just crossed my mind last night when I was in the shop so thought I would mention it so you could at least consider it in what you want to do. Wish you the best of luck! I love my lathe, and hope you enjoy yours as much.

I am in the process of getting a TL lathe. I plan to replace the 3 phase motor with a 2.5 HP DC motor. I know that the lathe has a High-Low-Brake switch handle.
A wiring diagram and/or pictures would be helpful.
The DC motor has a speed control and I could add a reversing switch, but would rather use the lathe reversing mechanics to accomplish that.

 

[Weldingrod1]

Folks,

You should realy wire up the two speed motor as a two speed. The electrical two speed will double your torque in the low range. Almost all VFD are constant torque drive, which means that at low speed your power output will be down a LOT. There are some that have a small constant horsepower range (which is what a two speed motor delivers). The issue is cooling; the motor fan doesn’t move enough air at low RPM to pull out the heat, and low speed driving produces more rotor heat than high speed. On lathes with a cabinet, its worth installing a separate cooling fan if you are going to be doing any significant low speed running. Just make sure that it flows in the same direction as the motor's built in fan!

The constant torque characteristic was clearly visible on my Southbend’s VFD drive. Turning down the spindle speed was no substitute for back gear! However, modulating spindle speed was often helpful to kill chatter. Also, adjusting spindle speed during the process of facing is pretty sweet; the CNC lathes do it automatically, but you can do it manually.

I'll try to make a diagram of what I do on my Hardinge (after I do it, of course ;-)

Regards,
Rod

 

[W6PUG]

Mine did not have a motor in it at all so we went scrounging ... mine is single speed that we found out in the chicken coop .... that said, I have also not run into much really low speed stuff just cuz I have not had a lot of hours on the lathe as of yet ... but I will keep this in mind; should not be a big whup to put a transfer switch between the windings of high and slow speed and the Teco N3. I can imagine how much a new 2 speed motor would cost, so I will keep my eyes open and hope to find one.
Thx for your comment though - I will stuff that in my STD notebook (Stuff To Do) and hopefully find one eventually! :thinking:

Folks,

You should realy wire up the two speed motor as a two speed. The electrical two speed will double your torque in the low range. Almost all VFD are constant torque drive, which means that at low speed your power output will be down a LOT. There are some that have a small constant horsepower range (which is what a two speed motor delivers). The issue is cooling; the motor fan doesn’t move enough air at low RPM to pull out the heat, and low speed driving produces more rotor heat than high speed. On lathes with a cabinet, its worth installing a separate cooling fan if you are going to be doing any significant low speed running. Just make sure that it flows in the same direction as the motor's built in fan!

The constant torque characteristic was clearly visible on my Southbend’s VFD drive. Turning down the spindle speed was no substitute for back gear! However, modulating spindle speed was often helpful to kill chatter. Also, adjusting spindle speed during the process of facing is pretty sweet; the CNC lathes do it automatically, but you can do it manually.

I'll try to make a diagram of what I do on my Hardinge (after I do it, of course ;-)

Regards,
Rod

 

[Weldingrod1]

I wanted to give you all an update; I got my Hardinge TL running! The two speed motor is 3/4 HP at 1720 RPM and 3/8 hp at 875 RPM. I was surprised that the low speed was lower power; this implies that this particular motor has the same torque at both speeds. The gear head drill press at work has a two speed with full power at both speeds!

 

[W6PUG]

VERY nice! Sounds like you are in Biz! I am envious, but thus far, I am not at point I have a need great enough to spend the big bux. Congrats!
You will have to send more pix once you get it settled in ... or you get settled into it. Will be watching for more photos. Take care and thanks for sharing.

I wanted to give you all an update; I got my Hardinge TL running! The two speed motor is 3/4 HP at 1720 RPM and 3/8 hp at 875 RPM. I was surprised that the low speed was lower power; this implies that this particular motor has the same torque at both speeds. The gear head drill press at work has a two speed with full power at both speeds!
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