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My welding skills are inferior
- Thread starter Norppu
- Start date
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2015
- Messages
- 12,186
Looks like the same type of stick welding mistakes I made at first:
1) moving too fast
2) being too far away
Practice, practice, practice
-Mark
ps also I have found pre-heating the parts makes striking the arc a bit easier
1) moving too fast
2) being too far away
Practice, practice, practice
-Mark
ps also I have found pre-heating the parts makes striking the arc a bit easier
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2013
- Messages
- 10,446
Get a wire welder with shield gas!
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2013
- Messages
- 10,446
Using a milling machine table for a welding table? ------ REALLY????
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2018
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- 1,716
Welding thin material with a stick is difficult, to say the least. Burn thru is very easy to do. A 1/16" rod and the right current will give you good results. For thin material, using a MIG, or TIG welder is by far the superior choice.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2015
- Messages
- 2,558
Ugh, Stick welding. Never got the hang of it other than making bubblegum welds. I also despise chipping slag.
I went straight to MIG after fumbling around for a while and never looked back. Then to TIG.
Stick certainly has it's applications though. Places where MIG or TIG just aren't practicle. Like outside in the wind, underwater, etc.
It's also probably the most affordable welding method to start up with, pick up and old buzz box and start burning metal.....
I went straight to MIG after fumbling around for a while and never looked back. Then to TIG.
Stick certainly has it's applications though. Places where MIG or TIG just aren't practicle. Like outside in the wind, underwater, etc.
It's also probably the most affordable welding method to start up with, pick up and old buzz box and start burning metal.....
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2018
- Messages
- 295
Nope. It is the drill press table. But still this might not be the correct place to weld with a stick. TIG ... maybe.
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2015
- Messages
- 12,186
You'd be surprised at how nice stick welds can look- but there is a bit of learning curve
-M
-M
Looks like the heat might not be too far off. There's a couple of small spots in amongst the boogers that kinda came out fine. That's not saying it's right, just that it's not probably too far off.
Always pull the electrode, never push. That is, if the electrode is tilted to the right, you start the weld at the left, and travel to the right.
For flat welding (like the disc), the rod would be verticle, then leaned in the direction you intend to travel by about 10 to 15 degrees.
For the inside corners, in the position you show, you would first "split the difference". So the rod would be pointed into the corner, 45 degrees "up" from horizontal, and 45 degrees "down from vertical. From that position, you would then lean it ten to 15 degrees in the direction you intend to travel.
It's hard to see through the blown out camera... You can film through an old welding helmet lens if you have one, so I'm extrapolating this from motions I can see, and the result of the weld..... So maybe I'm off a bit, but here's some stuff from a self taught "maintenance" welder, who has stuck together some pretty solid stuff. (And also someone who knows enough to bail and farm out the job when his skills don't meet the design criteria....)
I see an awful lot of motion of the welding rod that looks like flailing back and forth, The tip of the rod shouldn't really (for "normal" welds like the ones you showed) travel more than the width of the electrode. There are other methods, even common ones, where you would move it more, but not for this. Much smaller movements.
Always moving though. A cursive lower case "e" pattern works well, as do semi-circles, or many other patterns that keep the rod moving. While that weave has you forward a little, you're heating, and as you back up, you're filling. When yo try to "drag" the rod, that is, move it only and exactly in the direction of travel, you often get what you've got a bunch of, where the bead preferentially wetted and attached to one side of the joint.
On that note, as you're watching through the helmet, don't watch the rod. Watch the puddle. Adjust the rod movement, and to a slight degree (nothing dramatic), the rod angle. Not the lead angle, but where you split the 90 degree inside corner into two 45's... You might find it better to bias the rod to point towards a colder side. If the bottom were 1 inch plate for example, you might raise the rod slightly to bias more heat towards it. Of if the bottom were thin sheet metal, you might lower the rod slightly, to bias towards the heavier upright piece.
Steady travel speed. Whatever pattern you settle on to heat and fill, the travel should really amount to about half the rod diameter. (The nominal diameter, don't include the flux). That's another one that's not "required", as you can really adjust the heat over quite a wide range to cover the travel speed, but when you do that, it's not all the same, or linear. Kind of the "advanced" lesson. If you set the travel speed as "however fast you go when the advancement of each weave in your pattern is half the rod diameter", then dial the heat in to make that work, things come together a lot more linearly, and the intuition of what to do if..... tends to be more similar from one rod to the next. Much easier to get started with, and very good to fall back on even for a professional when other variables get out of hand.
And a good tight arc. The arc should not be very long at all. It's not written in stone, but an eighth of an inch is great for an eighth inch rod. A 1/16 rod really would like a 1/16 arc. Good luck with doing that freehand.... But by 3/32 it's a lot easier to come at least close to that.
And of course, striking (starting) the arc... I couldn't tell you how may times I've heard someone say "if you can strike an arc, I can teach you to weld". Well of course, because striking an arc is hard to describe, hard to teach, it involves hearing, seeing, and feeling all at the same time, and will take as much practice as anything else you'll ever learn about stick welding. There's a lot of ways to do this, but the "tap and lift" method I see you using has got to be the absolute hardest and most unreliable of them all. It's (almost) uncontrollable, and relies mostly on luck. The better methods are where you are moving along as the arc is struck. My preferred method is to envision an arc of a circle, maybe two feet in diameter. Start with the rod too high, moving your arm somewhat in a straight line, and somewhat quickly, drag the rod in the direction you will travel, and along the path you intend to weld. Using that your wrist, lower the rod, following about that arc that you just envisioned until it scratches. When the arc starts, continue following that arc of the circle until it lifts the rod about an eighth of an inch (or a little more) above the joint, and quickly (not depositing enough material to say so) "push the rod back to where the weld is to start. Then circle until your puddle forms, and begin your weave, stitch, cursive e, or whatever pattern you are going to follow, welding right all over all of the "ugly" you just made striking the arc.
Stick welding does indeed have a very very steep initial learning curve, but it's not "that" tall. If you weld much, it's well worth your time. Once you get the general idea (and I mean that... General idea, you need not be "perfect"....), and the learning curve quickly flattens out. It's the most versatile welding process you're going to find. Not to say other processes aren't very successful, and probably more than sufficient for most people, but stick just does so much. Mig, or the gasless flux core welders have a very short initial learning curve, meaning you can (almost) take one out of the box and go to work for small and non-safety related things. But there is still a long and ongoing learning, especially for heavy materials seems to never end. It's really easy to get a big beautiful weld that looks wonderful, but hasn't acutally "burned in" to the parent material, and isn't up to the strength that one would expect of it. Tig is an absolute bear to get started on, it's like stick welding in one hand, but the arc is in the other hand, and your brain has to control both independantly. But it lends it's self much better to a home shop environment with less spatter on the work, less spatter in the shop (fires.....), less fumes, more easily vented with a fan in the window. So yeah.... All processes are valid in my mind, there is no "one size fits all", and stick welding has enough versatility and usefulness that it's absolutely worth learning if you weld much at all. Just maybe not on the mill table.... That was painful. Although nobody knows better than you what the actual condition of that table is, and perhaps it's not going to bother it in any way. But still... Ouch!
Always pull the electrode, never push. That is, if the electrode is tilted to the right, you start the weld at the left, and travel to the right.
For flat welding (like the disc), the rod would be verticle, then leaned in the direction you intend to travel by about 10 to 15 degrees.
For the inside corners, in the position you show, you would first "split the difference". So the rod would be pointed into the corner, 45 degrees "up" from horizontal, and 45 degrees "down from vertical. From that position, you would then lean it ten to 15 degrees in the direction you intend to travel.
It's hard to see through the blown out camera... You can film through an old welding helmet lens if you have one, so I'm extrapolating this from motions I can see, and the result of the weld..... So maybe I'm off a bit, but here's some stuff from a self taught "maintenance" welder, who has stuck together some pretty solid stuff. (And also someone who knows enough to bail and farm out the job when his skills don't meet the design criteria....)
I see an awful lot of motion of the welding rod that looks like flailing back and forth, The tip of the rod shouldn't really (for "normal" welds like the ones you showed) travel more than the width of the electrode. There are other methods, even common ones, where you would move it more, but not for this. Much smaller movements.
Always moving though. A cursive lower case "e" pattern works well, as do semi-circles, or many other patterns that keep the rod moving. While that weave has you forward a little, you're heating, and as you back up, you're filling. When yo try to "drag" the rod, that is, move it only and exactly in the direction of travel, you often get what you've got a bunch of, where the bead preferentially wetted and attached to one side of the joint.
On that note, as you're watching through the helmet, don't watch the rod. Watch the puddle. Adjust the rod movement, and to a slight degree (nothing dramatic), the rod angle. Not the lead angle, but where you split the 90 degree inside corner into two 45's... You might find it better to bias the rod to point towards a colder side. If the bottom were 1 inch plate for example, you might raise the rod slightly to bias more heat towards it. Of if the bottom were thin sheet metal, you might lower the rod slightly, to bias towards the heavier upright piece.
Steady travel speed. Whatever pattern you settle on to heat and fill, the travel should really amount to about half the rod diameter. (The nominal diameter, don't include the flux). That's another one that's not "required", as you can really adjust the heat over quite a wide range to cover the travel speed, but when you do that, it's not all the same, or linear. Kind of the "advanced" lesson. If you set the travel speed as "however fast you go when the advancement of each weave in your pattern is half the rod diameter", then dial the heat in to make that work, things come together a lot more linearly, and the intuition of what to do if..... tends to be more similar from one rod to the next. Much easier to get started with, and very good to fall back on even for a professional when other variables get out of hand.
And a good tight arc. The arc should not be very long at all. It's not written in stone, but an eighth of an inch is great for an eighth inch rod. A 1/16 rod really would like a 1/16 arc. Good luck with doing that freehand.... But by 3/32 it's a lot easier to come at least close to that.
And of course, striking (starting) the arc... I couldn't tell you how may times I've heard someone say "if you can strike an arc, I can teach you to weld". Well of course, because striking an arc is hard to describe, hard to teach, it involves hearing, seeing, and feeling all at the same time, and will take as much practice as anything else you'll ever learn about stick welding. There's a lot of ways to do this, but the "tap and lift" method I see you using has got to be the absolute hardest and most unreliable of them all. It's (almost) uncontrollable, and relies mostly on luck. The better methods are where you are moving along as the arc is struck. My preferred method is to envision an arc of a circle, maybe two feet in diameter. Start with the rod too high, moving your arm somewhat in a straight line, and somewhat quickly, drag the rod in the direction you will travel, and along the path you intend to weld. Using that your wrist, lower the rod, following about that arc that you just envisioned until it scratches. When the arc starts, continue following that arc of the circle until it lifts the rod about an eighth of an inch (or a little more) above the joint, and quickly (not depositing enough material to say so) "push the rod back to where the weld is to start. Then circle until your puddle forms, and begin your weave, stitch, cursive e, or whatever pattern you are going to follow, welding right all over all of the "ugly" you just made striking the arc.
Stick welding does indeed have a very very steep initial learning curve, but it's not "that" tall. If you weld much, it's well worth your time. Once you get the general idea (and I mean that... General idea, you need not be "perfect"....), and the learning curve quickly flattens out. It's the most versatile welding process you're going to find. Not to say other processes aren't very successful, and probably more than sufficient for most people, but stick just does so much. Mig, or the gasless flux core welders have a very short initial learning curve, meaning you can (almost) take one out of the box and go to work for small and non-safety related things. But there is still a long and ongoing learning, especially for heavy materials seems to never end. It's really easy to get a big beautiful weld that looks wonderful, but hasn't acutally "burned in" to the parent material, and isn't up to the strength that one would expect of it. Tig is an absolute bear to get started on, it's like stick welding in one hand, but the arc is in the other hand, and your brain has to control both independantly. But it lends it's self much better to a home shop environment with less spatter on the work, less spatter in the shop (fires.....), less fumes, more easily vented with a fan in the window. So yeah.... All processes are valid in my mind, there is no "one size fits all", and stick welding has enough versatility and usefulness that it's absolutely worth learning if you weld much at all. Just maybe not on the mill table.... That was painful. Although nobody knows better than you what the actual condition of that table is, and perhaps it's not going to bother it in any way. But still... Ouch!