My First Lathe, But It Needs Some Work, Where To Start?

[Matthew Nelson]

So I took the plunge and bought a lathe. It's my first "real" tool. I got a Craftsman 101 (same as an Atlas 618 from what I've been reading). It wasn't too hard of a decision since it was almost free. The guy also gave me a nice Craftsman bench grinder and two tool boxes full of misc. stuff (most of which I'm not sure what they are).

It sat unused for a while, plus it needs some work. I'm looking for some advice on the best order of operations to get this little champ working well again. Once I got it home and put back together, I turned it on for a quick test run. There are a few issues right off the bat that I know need to be addressed: 1- The back-feed gears have a bunch of broken or missing teeth (um... but I don't know what the back-feed is used for... ). 2- The Eccentric Handle has a too much play, and doesn't stay in place (not sure if that's the right name, but it's the small lever that engages the back-feed gears). 3- The handles for the cross slide and compound are broken. 4- The auto-feed lever doesn't engage the auto-feed. 5- The belts are totally frayed and kinda scare me. 6- The oil in the wells on either side of the spindle has solidified. 7- It's missing the threading dial, but I ordered one from eBay yesterday. 8- There's quite a bit of play (backlash?) in every handle.

These are the known problems. Do I need to disassemble the whole thing (keep in mind I've never done anything that complicated in my life), or can I just fix the problems? I don't have a pressing need to use the lathe yet, so if the best options take a while, I'm OK with that. Plus, my wife says I need to control my impulse to build something right away (since I have no idea what I'm doing). She's usually right.

Also, do I dive into a quick change tool post now or wait? Can I get a DRO for this little guy, or is that just overkill for a hobbyist?

I can post as many pictures as needed/ requested. Thanks in advance, and I'm looking forward to the new hobby.

-Matt

 

[francist]

Hey Matt, I have a little 618 and my way of thinking is you don't need to do it all at once. The lathe is so small (but fun) that it's easy to tackle things one by one.

You can live without back gear for a bit until such time as you want to find a new gear to replace the broken one. The handle to engage back gear uses a little ball and detent to stay in position -- sometimes that just slides away from the headstock enough to allow that detent to not stay engaged, so it might just need adjusting. But you do need belts to run. If the old ones are shot replace them. A link belt on the headstock belt will save having to pull the spindle to replace it.

I'd not fret about the backlash right away, but you do need handles in order to operate the machine. You can pull the saddle on a 618, go over it, and put it back on in an afternoon so it's not an arduous job. Gives you a chance to clean the undersides and see why the half nuts aren't engaging for longitudinal feed.

The solidified oil in the headstock cups may indeed be grease from previous owner. Clean those out so you can use oil.

Skip the quick change tool post unless one just happens to fall in to your lap. A lantern will get you going while you iron out all the other little kinks, then spring for a quick change. DRO -- the machine is pretty small and you'll find you need all of its space to do anything of substance. Readout scales are just going to cramp things even if you can find one that's small enough to work nicely.

Just my thoughts, have fun.

-frank

 

[eeler1]

So, you brought home an old beat up, broken machine, and the wife says 'what are you so happy about, it doesn't even work?'

You can get by without back gears or power feed, but they sure are nice to have. I'd say tear it down by assembly, clean, fix, replace when needed and budget allows, don't worry about paint any shiny stuff till basics are done.

Even if it's worn and broken and never be able to do fine work (we don't know condition but doesn't sound too good), there's some value in going through and figuring out how it all works. Big help when you look for another machine.

Be mindful of budget, you can put more into fixing it than you paid for it, and in the end may still have a worn out machine. Lots of similar experience and good info/advice in the atlas forum here.

 

[T Bredehoft]

You've identified the back gears, and their control. (The lever is the "Back Gear Lever) The back gear is a "low gear" arrangement. Through changing belts you are able to achieve 3 or four different spindle speeds. In High gear (non-back gear) the thing really spins. In back gear it turns slowly.

Small pieces of steel ( under 3/4 inch) ( about 400 RPM) use high gear, bigger than than should use the Back Gear and one of the pulley speeds.

It seems that the relation ship between the surface you are cutting and the tool is critical. Assuming you use High Speed Steel (HSS) tools that surface speed should be no more than 80 feet per minute, otherwise the heat built up in the tool will cause it to soften and loose it's ability to cut. Some people say 90 FPM, but I like 80 better, tools last longer, and I'm not paid by the hour.

Try to fix one piece at a time, replace broken pieces as you can, handles can be bought from Mc Master Carr, and other suppliers. You may find as you work one piece at a time, that you see how other (broken) things are supposed to work and when you get to them, you can figure out what you need.

 

[Matthew Nelson]

...and the wife says 'what are you so happy about, it doesn't even work?'

@eeler1, Were you in ear-shot of me and my wife a few days ago? I don't remember, but that may actually be the exact phrase she used.

OK, so I'll start with belts. Not too expensive, and not too much learning curve... right? Is there a preferred place online I should order them from, or do I just do a Google search to try to find the belts locally?

I'll tear down the cross slide and compound this weekend so I can get them cleaned and ready for new handles. I'll look at McMaster Carr and eBay to see what's available. Should I stick with the original design, or does someone make better handles? As long as they're being replaced, might as well get what works best.

-Matt

 

[T Bredehoft]

Some might argue for "original" keeping in mind resale, but you're the one that's going to use them, if you find a more "pleasing" handle, use it.

 

[francist]

And get the manual! I learned a ton by looking over the parts diagrams and seeing how things are "supposed" to work. There's a number of small leaflet-style publications in addition to the bigger books (How to Run a Lathe, eg) that can really help you figure things out.

-frank

 

[Matthew Nelson]

I've already ordered the manual. The lathe came with a bunch loose pages, but not a complete manual. Plus they're too dirty to read in many places. I've also downloaded a PDF of it, but it's too small to read on a tablet. It would be nice if I could find a full 3D rendering of the lathe and all the parts, but I don't think that one is out there.

-Matt

 

[brino]

Hi Matt,

Welcome aboard!

My first lathe was a small Atlas/Craftsman (the exact number escapes me.....). It was a great experience! Not because the lathe was perfect and I could start churning out a bunch of projects, but because it quickly taught me a bunch of things: what to look for when buying any machine tool(used or new), the limits of a lathe with small capacities(swing and between centres), the limits of a machine tool with small flexible ways and gibs.

Don't take this wrong, I do NOT mean to discourage you, I would not change a thing about it. I learned to modify my methods to make jobs work better on small, worn equipment. I learned what "slop" mattered for what operations. For instance, for parting I could lock the carriage and substantially reduce chatter.

I'd say start slow.
First make sure it's safe; replace the belts, make sure there are no structural problems, cracked chuck/faceplates.
Clean everything, that will be a good time to go over it.
After cleaning out all lubrication points and re-filling them try a few small projects even in wood, plastic or aluminum.

Once you understand the operation of the lathe better, you'll be much better qualified to perhaps disassemble one lead-screw to see where the backlash is and what can be done about it.

The backgears allow a very slow spindle speed used for threading and any other operation calls for it. It's really about surface feet per minute (SFM or SFPM) at the cutter edge. Based on the tool, the material and the operation you can look-up the SFPM and then based on the diameter of the work calculate the appropriate RPM. I made a list of SFPMs for different tools and materials, and a conversion table for SFPM to RPM in excel, laminated it and hung it on my shop door.

My second lathe had some broken teeth on some gears. The previous owner repaired them...I'll try to post back with some pictures...

For the broken feed handles, is there room to drill a hole and tap it for a bolt as a new handle. You could even get fancy with a piece of pipe over the bolt for a handle that spins.

If you want a DRO and have the money to play with then why not? Small ones can be found, or even a cheap digital caliper bodged on.

Have Fun!
-brino

 

[Matthew Nelson]

Thanks @brino. I like the idea of drilling and tapping the handles for now. The guy I got the lathe from also gave me a tool box full of drill bits, taps, dies, and stuff like that. Many hundreds of them, but nothing is sorted yet. Think I'll work on that over the long weekend. I should have something in there that will work.