Machine for beginner cnc

[pinkpanda3310]

I previously bought stuff to make a cnc but the project became more than i could chew. So I'm after something that's ready to go that i can learn on. End goal is to use it for 4th axis work. Prefer it to be small and rigid.

I realise I'm likely to be directed to go with brand names and make my own, change the control box etc.... I just want something to get started on.

Something like this would be ideal if I could mount a 4th axis to it but i don't think there is enough space to mount the 4th axis - High Strength Steel 2030 400W DC Desktop CNC Router Engraver Machine AC110V/220V | eBay It has fixed rails and fixed gantry so should be relatively rigid for a small machine. And of course it's pretty cheap.

The next step up that i might consider is a big jump in price - Linear Guide Rails 1.5KW 2.2KW 4 Axis CNC Router MACH3 USB 3040 Metal Aluminum Iron Steel Engraving Milling Machine|Wood Routers| - AliExpress

If i'm going to pay that much i might as well get a reliable brand right? is stylecnc reliable? Desktop CNC Router with 4th Axis Rotary Table - CNC Wood Router (stylecnc.com)

For that money i could get something more rigid - 1.5KW 2.2KW 3.5KW Full Cast Iron CNC Engraving Machine 3040 CNC Router Metal Milling Machine Z Axis 170mm 220V|Wood Routers| - AliExpress

This one looks almost purpose built for what i want but i wonder about rigidity - Cylinder CNC Router | 3D Carving Machine – NRY CNC Wood Carving Machines (bravoprodigy.com)


It's a good bit of $$$ so i'm hesitant to jump. Any suggestions or experience with the above machines?

 

[spumco]

If you just want to get started, buy the cheapest thing you can find with a control system that is similar to 'grown-up' machines. I mean a control system that allows you to program at the machine and has fairly standard features.

You're going to outgrow just about any of the above machines and soon want something bigger, stiffer, faster, etc. If you consider your first machine as a learning experience (stepping stone) you want to maximize your money/time. So find something that will give you good training on how to program/control.

None of the above will be 'upgradable' as you learn CNC stuff. The cast iron thing looks promising, but it's so small you'll be stuck making tiny trinkets. It only has 160mm of Z... once you put a vise or other workholding on the table you'll run out of Z-axis and be stuck with really short tools and short parts. 290x390 is fine for X/Y travels, but the Z-axis kills it. And there doesn't appear to be a controller...

So... first swing at your question is to get the absolute cheapest thing you can learn CNC on. Even if you aren't programming by hand, you need something you can fiddle with CAD/CAM and see some results. And 3D printers are typically not suitable for this.

 

[Flyinfool]

I guess a lot depends on what you intend the machine to do.
A CNC router is NOT a CNC mill. I say this because you mentioned rigid as a requirement. Mills are rigid and routers are not. What is considered a very rigid router is still a very wimpy mill. If you want to be able remove a lot of metal with accuracy you need a mill If you want to cut out 2D shapes from thin materials or cut things like 3D relief pictures a router will suffice.
Once you decide this part then what was mentioned above is the route to follow.

 

[pinkpanda3310]

Lol, that wasn't the answer I was expecting

To try and clarify, I mention rigidity because I want the option of working harder metals. Mostly 3d relief pictures on torches so nothing really big. Though I can see i might find various other uses for it. Size is a bit of an issue because I need to 'make space' for it in the garage.

I appreciate the guidance, cheapest smallest just to learn the process. Thanks

 

[spumco]

Think of it this way...

You want to learn to program video games. You have zero experience with computers - hardware or software.

Do you buy a $10k computer that you won't outgrow - but may not be what you want when you figure out what's what later on, do you buy a $1k 'decent' computer that you'll outgrow quickly, or do you buy a $10 arduino and poke around a bit while you learn programming?

Seriously... workholding, programming (CAD or manual), and tool selection/management are the hard parts. Actually removing material is kind of the last part of the whole process.

Suggestion - most of the PC-based CNC controllers have some sort of trial software available. Download them and play around, and get used to cartesian coordinates and so forth. Program the 'tool' to do stuff, work in absolute vs incremental coordinates, get used to the G-codes. It'll cost you nothing, and you'll eventually learn some differences in controllers and features.

Ultimately it all depends on what you want to make. What's the largest thing you want to make, and what material is it? - that'll dictate the type of machine you have to have.

 

[homebrewed]

We bought a Sherline CNC milling setup for our lab so we could make small parts for fixturing, engraving, etc. The current price for the one we got still is less than $3,000 and that includes a computer preloaded with LinuxCNC. That's how I (started) learning G code to make simple stuff. It isn't a gamer's PC but you don't need one for this.

The advantage of this approach is that you get a functional system, bypassing all the build-it-yourself pitfalls so you can start learning right away. You could build a system -- either entirely from scratch, or by modifying something like a Chinese benchtop mill -- but it could take you a year to get it all right, and you may end up spending almost as much anyway.

 

[pinkpanda3310]

Seriously... workholding, programming (CAD or manual), and tool selection/management are the hard parts. Actually removing material is kind of the last part of the whole process.

Suggestion - most of the PC-based CNC controllers have some sort of trial software available. Download them and play around, and get used to cartesian coordinates and so forth. Program the 'tool' to do stuff, work in absolute vs incremental coordinates, get used to the G-codes. It'll cost you nothing, and you'll eventually learn some differences in controllers and features.

Ultimately it all depends on what you want to make. What's the largest thing you want to make, and what material is it? - that'll dictate the type of machine you have to have.

I'm not a gamer but your analogy is clear. I'm not worried about workholding though i've heard that's an issue for a lot of people. The controller i figured would be getting upgraded at a later date. The first one I end up with will be at the steep end of the learning curve anyway so it could be anything. When i was looking into cnc before i was inclined to go with uccnc. End goal is jewelry type flashlights. I want to do even more customizing by engraving bodies etc... -

We bought a Sherline CNC milling setup for our lab so we could make small parts for fixturing, engraving, etc. The current price for the one we got still is less than $3,000 and that includes a computer preloaded with LinuxCNC. That's how I (started) learning G code to make simple stuff. It isn't a gamer's PC but you don't need one for this.

The advantage of this approach is that you get a functional system, bypassing all the build-it-yourself pitfalls so you can start learning right away. You could build a system -- either entirely from scratch, or by modifying something like a Chinese benchtop mill -- but it could take you a year to get it all right, and you may end up spending almost as much anyway.

You pretty much nailed what i'm trying to achieve. Work is going to be super busy this year so i won't have a lot of time.

Thanks guys

 

[spumco]

Sounds like you need a live-tool lathe rather than a 4th axis mill. Those are super-easy to start off on...

Do you have a lathe? A 4th axis mill is perfectly suitable (even the Sherline) for putting features on flashlights or other aluminum round things, but what's your plan for the basic flashlight?

Now that I think about it, a Sherline-ish CNC lathe and a matching mill with a 4th axis would be are really sweet combo to have in a shop for small stuff. And LinuxCNC is pretty sweet. UCCNC is nice (I use it), but it has no lathe functions... so you'd need a different controller. Better to stick with one control environment if possible.

 

[Weldingrod1]

Based on my experience (limited), if it's got Aluminum structural bits and belts, it will always have a hard time with brass and Aluminum. Do-able, but grouchy, noisy, and shallow cuts.
Smaller means the beams are stiffer, but you can get into trouble with the bearing length getting too short. If the contact length (or roller span) is much less than twice the guide width/height, you will have a flexible machine. At 2:1 it should be decent.

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[Weldingrod1]

The first item is interesting. If it's really sheet steel, then it could be a decent low end machine. Some time with rivers and good epoxy to solidify the bolted joints and it could be a decent learner. Fyi, those dc spindles are pretty sloppy. They just have a rubber brushed skate bearing top and bottom. Price to performance is not too bad, though.
Interesting that it has a brain! I run a DDCSV on mine, so I cut directly off a usb stick. At this price point, there are a few integrated brain + stepper driver units out there.

I agree that the learning curve on cnc is steep: much.more so than 3D printing (having done both...). Starting with -something- functional is probably better than trying to scratch build something where you aren't really sure what you need in it.

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