Keller power hacksaw

[Ultradog MN]

Am looking at a possible purchase of this old Keller power hacksaw.
Have a couple of questions about it before pulling the trigger. I understand that a PH is pretty slow compared to a bandsaw. Are they real slow, agonizingly slow or impossibly slow?
A typical project would be to cut some 1/4" wall 4" square tubing, some 1/2"x4" hot rolled or 2" round cold rolled. Ho do they do on something like 1/8"x1 1/2" angle iron?
I like vintage machinery and simply have no interest in China made tools or machinery (No offense to anyone if they do)
This machine does have a bit of wear - frame gibs and shaft bushings but nothing that seemed insurmountable. Is there anything on one of these that is not repairable and will make it just scrap?
Also, It does come with a coolant pump and reservoir. I don't know if it works.
Is it worth dispensing with that and going to an air/coolant mister?
I would like to have a bit larger saw but this one with a bit of tinkering might serve my needs till I found a better horizontal saw.
You guys who have them or had them do you like them?
Thanks

 

[Lo-Fi]

About half the speed of a bandsaw on the stock you're looking at cutting. I have similar myself and get on with it fine. I'd say go for it if it's what you want and a decent price. Only negative, I think, is that the reciprocating action makes workholding while cutting angles a little dicey.

 

[C-Bag]

There are several fans of hacksaws here. One quite prominent member says with the right blade his goes through steel as quick as a bandsaw. He mentioned a really coarse blade that I don’t even know you can get for a bandsaw. It would seem its easier to change the blade to fit the work than a bandsaw. I equate it with a shaper, yeah you only cut one direction, but you can take a big cut if you know what you’re doing so it offsets time wise.

 

[Aaron_W]

I've come to the conclusion that the idea that power hacksaws are substantially slower than a bandsaw is more myth than reality at least when comparing to saws you typically find in a home workshop.

The idea is that the hacksaw is only cutting 1/2 the time vs a bandsaw and that is true, so if you have an actual fair comparison of a heavy duty bandsaw then I think that common wisdom is probably true. However in a home shop I think the common 4x6" bandsaw probably is the one at a disadvantage.

That Keller is a lot more saw than a 4x6" bandsaw, probably twice the weight, and with a 14" blade you are comparing a 1" to 1-1/4" blade 0.05" thick to a 1/2" blade 0.025" thick.

Power hacksaws are more complex, so there is more that can go wrong, get out of adjustment and wear out.



Here is a video comparing a Marvel Power Hacksaw against a Harbor Freight 4x6, the hacksaw wins, but again it isn't really a fair comparison as that Marvel is a lot more machine.

Here is a video of a Keller, not sure it is the exact same model, but appears to be the same size as the one you are looking at.

 

[DavidR8]

I think @francist has a Keller saw. Perhaps he can weigh in with his perspectives.

 

[francist]

I have a Keller 3WA as well as my generic 4X6 bandsaw. The bandsaw is what I use 90 percent of the time just because it's a bit faster on the setup for me and produces a finer cut. The Keller is where I go for bigger metal -- solid in 2" and above type thing where the bandsaw tends to take a long time. The Keller cuts square enough and nice enough, but at typically a 10tpi blade it's not where I go for light materials.

My saw came equipped with a coolant tank but I've never gone down that road mostly because of the mess and possible smell (my shop is in my house basement) so I just hand-drip a little cutting oil whenever I feel the need. I also resharpen a blade once or twice to get some extra mileage out it which I can't do with a bandsaw, but I don't think many people do that.



@DavidR8 -- hah, was just pecking that out as you spoke!

 

[projectnut]

I have both a power hacksaw and a horizontal bandsaw. The bandsaw is a Startrite H175 It has a 7" x 11" capacity and 3 speeds. The speeds are 60 ft. per minute, 100 ft. per minute, and 140 ft. per minute.

The Racine power hacksaw has a 6"x 6" capacity and 2 speeds. The speeds are 100 strokes per minute, and 140 strokes per minute. With a 5 1/2" stroke that translates to 45.8 ft. per minute at the slower speed, and 64.16 ft. per minute at the faster speed.

For the most part I run both saws at their lowest speed. In that case the power hacksaw runs about 75% the speed of the bandsaw. Should I run the hacksaw at the faster speed it's actually quicker than the bandsaw. The power hacksaw is an excellent machine, but has only 1/2 the width capacity of the bandsaw. It's easy to change blades, and they cost about $9.00 to $10.00 at current retail prices. Blades are available anywhere from 3 tpi to 20 tpi.

The bandsaw uses a 3/4"x 98" blade. The Bi-Metal blades are available anywhere from 4 tpi to 14 tpi. I generally use 10-14 variable tooth, or 6-10 variable tooth. Blades cost about $45.00 each.

Both saws have coolant capacity, but I don't use it on either saw. The bandsaw blades usually last 2-3 years with daily use. I don't use the power hacksaw nearly as much as the bandsaw so I can't attest as to how long blades last.

My Racine saw is considerably more stable than the Keller in the video. It weighs about 750 lbs. and uses the reservoir for support rather than legs. It also lifts on the forward stroke and cuts on the back stroke. I have seen several in this area in the $200.00 to $250.00 range. We used a similar one at work (4 speed model) for over 20 years. It worked all day long and only needed blade changes and an occasional cleaning.

ON EDIT: This is a bit embarrassing, but I thought I'd make a correction about the speeds available on the Startrite H175 bandsaw. I originally mentioned I rarely change speeds, and the machine has 3 speeds of 60 fpm, 100 fpm, and 140, fpm. This is the information published in the sales brochure and on the material cutting chart on the saw itself.

Last week I went to use the saw to cut some thin sheet metal and decided the current speed of 60 fpm was way slower than necessary. I went to change the belt position and removed the guard. Much to my surprise the machine has 4 speeds available. The 3 previous mentioned speeds plus a higher speed of 225 fpm. At first I thought the pulleys may have been changed by the previous owner, but then discovered a blade speed chart listing all 4 speeds.

It's a bit puzzling that the highest speed isn't mentioned anywhere except the speed diagram inside the guard. There's quite an extensive list of materials mentioned on the speed chart on the lower right face of the front guard, but the fastest speed mentioned is 160 fpm, and that's for plastics.

Here are some pictures of the saws:

 

[Aaron_W]

My Racine saw is considerably more stable than the Keller in the video.

The one in the video is sitting on a pallet which probably doesn't help with its stability.

 

[Dabbler]

I have that exact same model of Keller hacksaw. I used it twice. I've owned it for 25 years. I should sell it.

I love to watch it work, much like a shaper, but I just don't have the room, so it sits in the corner.

 

[projectnut]

I'm sure sitting on the pallet doesn't help, but there seems to be movement between the saw platform and the top of the legs. I'm not sure if the legs are bolted to the saw platform, or they are/were part of the same casting.

On the Racine saw the platform is welded to the base/coolant reservoir. The walls and bottom of the tank are at least 1/4" thick.