[How do I?] How to change gearbox speed on Gorton 9J?

[TheSerialHobbyist]

Hi everyone! I'm new here, but I'm excited to be part of the community.

I recently purchased this old Gorton 9J mill and just finished cleaning it up. Took about 15 hours of scrubbing, but it now looks pretty decent.

However, I'm unable to move the table power feed speed-adjustment lever (marked with the red arrows in the pictures) and I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong.

To be clear, the machine isn't yet running (still figuring out power). But I'm not sure if something is seized up, if I'm doing something wrong, or if the motor needs to be turning. I'm hoping someone might have some experience with these machines and can let me know.

The feed lever (on the left) moves freely and smoothly. But the speed lever (on the right) won't budge at all. No amount of tugging or prodding seems to make a difference. Obviously I can wait and try it once I have the motor running, but if something is seized up and needs to be disassembled, I'd rather do that at this stage.

Any advice? Thank you!

 

[matthewsx]

First, welcome to H-M, you'll find lots of good info on here as well as folks ready to help. I previously owned a 1-22 mastermill so can't give you exact advice but have you tried rotating the spindle by hand while trying the lever? Sometimes things need to move in order to move other things, this doesn't mean running under power necessarily, just rotate by hand.

Here's a manual if you don't have it, Gorton made very good machines and documented them well.

George Gorton Machine Co. 9-J Mill Maintenance Manual 1952, Form 2527

Gorton Machine product description

gorton-machine.org

Looks like you're off to a great start, feel free to ask anything, someone will have the knowledge you seek.

John

 

[matthewsx]

Nevermind on the spindle, I see it's the table feed speed now.

I wouldn't worry about that one right now, you're most likely to be feeding by hand at the beginning. But, does the detent handle pull out when you grip it or does it seem stuck? Sometimes those things can be frozen with old oil and need some persuasion to get free.

John

 

[TheSerialHobbyist]

First, welcome to H-M, you'll find lots of good info on here as well as folks ready to help. I previously owned a 1-22 mastermill so can't give you exact advice but have you tried rotating the spindle by hand while trying the lever? Sometimes things need to move in order to move other things, this doesn't mean running under power necessarily, just rotate by hand.

Here's a manual if you don't have it, Gorton made very good machines and documented them well.

Looks like you're off to a great start, feel free to ask anything, someone will have the knowledge you seek.

John

There 1-22 Mastermill is very cool! The guy I got this from was also getting rid of a 2-30. But it was even bigger than this 9J, which is already massive for a home garage shop, haha.

I tried moving the spindle by hand and that didn't work. Also tried moving the table in both X and Y while trying to work the lever, and that didn't work either.

Thank you the manual! I'll read through that and see if I can find any information on this.

 

[TheSerialHobbyist]

Nevermind on the spindle, I see it's the table feed speed now.

I wouldn't worry about that one right now, you're most likely to be feeding by hand at the beginning. But, does the detent handle pull out when you grip it or does it seem stuck? Sometimes those things can be frozen with old oil and need some persuasion to get free.

John

I thought about that, too. But I'm not getting any movement on the detent when I pull on it. That's part of what I was confused by. The other (feed) handle pulls out, then you can slide it around. I figured the speed handle would similarly, but it can't get it to budge at all when I pull on it with all my might.

I'll try getting in there to see if maybe some crud has jammed up something.

 

[TheSerialHobbyist]

Nevermind on the spindle, I see it's the table feed speed now.

I wouldn't worry about that one right now, you're most likely to be feeding by hand at the beginning. But, does the detent handle pull out when you grip it or does it seem stuck? Sometimes those things can be frozen with old oil and need some persuasion to get free.

John

Actually, looking at the manual, it does seem like the power feed motor needs to be running in order to move the feed selection lever. So I may have to wait until it is under power to find out if it is working or if something is wrong.

 

[matthewsx]

Good, if you want to use the original electrical you'll need either a static or rotary converter. Not sure how the j-9 is but on my 1-22 the electronics were vacuum tube driven. I ended up just using the VFD the previous owner had wired directly to the spindle motor and operating everything else manually. Electric controls on these old machines can be a challenge to keep original with parts that were new 70-years ago.

I've had good luck with North American static phase converters on machines where I didn't want to change the stock systems.

Static Phase Converters | Electronic Phase Converters | NAPCco

Static Phase Converters A static phase converter is used to generate 3 phase power during the starting of a motor. A static phase converter consists of one or more start capacitors and a start relay. The start capacitors produce electricity across the third winding of a motor during start up,

www.northamericaphaseconverters.com

But, the heaters, contactors, relays, switches, wiring and everything else needs to work in order for things to function as designed. Often a VFD wired directly to the motor is the fastest way to get an old machine running.

I assume you have 240v in your shop so any of the standard methods (VFD, static, or rotary phase converter) will provide the 3 phase needed for the spindle motor.

John

 

[TheSerialHobbyist]

Yes, electrical has been a big challenge that I'm still working through.

I actually don't have 240V in my shop currently, but may end up running it. The big problem is that the original motor requires 440V, which introduces an additional headache.

I've been working through this and my current plan is:

1. replace the spindle motor with a big treadmill motor (DC, fed by regular 120V AC). There are several disadvantages to that, but the advantages are speed control, cost, and not needing to run 240V power.
2. the quill down feed motor is actually DC and already has a rectifier, so I can feed it 120V AC.
3. the table power feed motor is 220V AC. I can get a VFD that both converts single-phase to three-phase and also boosts that from 120V to 220V.

There is a good chance that the treadmill motor won't be adequate. The one I ordered is 2HP at 2400 RPM, which is significantly less torque than the original beast of a motor. If this motor isn't up to the task, then I'll need to run 240V and likely get a VFD that pushes that up to 440V (in addition to the phase conversion). But that VFD alone is about $500, which is why I'm trying the cheap solution first.

 

[matthewsx]

Oh, I do have access to a 1-22 MasterMill at work that I use occasionally.

Post in thread 'POTD- PROJECT OF THE DAY: What Did You Make In Your Shop Today?'

Aug 13, 2024

Used the Mastermill at work today to trim a part for the bike motor mount.




Nice to use a machine like this, two passes and it was done.

John

• matthewsx

• 

Favorite quote from the Gorton fourm " those Gortons make a Bridgeport look like Silly Putty".

What collets does your machine take and do you have a full set? The one at work takes R8 which is great, I think mine took some kind of B&S, maybe 9?


Mine

John

 

[TheSerialHobbyist]

Favorite quote from the Gorton fourm " those Gortons make a Bridgeport look like Silly Putty".

Ha! I have heard really good things about these Gorton machines. People swear by them!

What collets does your machine take and do you have a full set? The one at work takes R8 which is great, I think mine took some kind of B&S, maybe 9?

The machine has a B&S #10. The seller included a collet holder for ZZ collets, plus a few collets in some random sizes. I just ordered a more complete set of ZZ collets.

I may end up turning a B&S #10 shank to use with a more modern/common collet holder, rather than investing in ZZ collets. But I haven't quite decided what direction I want to go.