How much jaw lift?

[Bill Kahn]

I have the $90 4” PM vise on my PM25MV mill. For two years now has been fine. It holds things square enough that I can’t see the error.

My needs/expectations are starting to change. When I tighten it I have fixed jaw lift. See photos. Like 3 thou or so. Which normally is no big deal. But sometimes it is starting to be annoying. (Blondiehack’s “tap tappy” to knock it down doesn’t work.)

As I work up the 4” vise food chain, what jaw lift should I expect? What is a good next level 4” vise? What vendor?

Thanks.

-Bill
First pic without tightening

Second pic tightened.

 

[MontanaLon]

If your fixed jaw is lifting you need to take it apart, clean it all up and then put it back together and tighten everything well. The only way that jaw can lift is if the fasteners holding the fixed jaw have come loose.

Actually, put your indicator on the fixed jaw itself and if that is moving the above is true. If it doesn't but the soft jaw is moving, tighten the soft jaw bolts.

 

[ttabbal]

As I work up the 4” vise food chain, what jaw lift should I expect? What is a good next level 4” vise? What vendor?

The only milling vises that I have used are the one that came with my mill, labeled "KKK" and Kurt. The Kurt has almost no lift, very solid. I do still give things a good whack. Note that while they might say tap, you should give a good whack with a dead blow on the part. You will be able to get the part seated on the parallels so the parallels are not easy to move.

I agree with the other post about the fixed jaw, something is wrong with the vice if you can move that side. It's the movable jaw that can lift normally.

Tubalcain on YouTube did a video a little while back about jaw lift and how Kurt's setup works. Interesting stuff. I have heard people recommend Glacern as well. I have one of their drill chucks and it's been very good.

 

[PT Doc]

A good cleaning and tightening is in order. The Kurt dx6 has 4 screws that through the whole fixed jaw. The dx4 has similar design.

 

[darkzero]

"Everything is made of rubber".

 

[Pcmaker]

how about switching to a toolmaker's vise?

 

[Bill Kahn]

I have the $90 4” PM vise on my PM25MV mill. For two years now has been fine. It holds things square enough that I can’t see the error.

My needs/expectations are starting to change. When I tighten it I have fixed jaw lift. See photos. Like 3 thou or so. Which normally is no big deal. But sometimes it is starting to be annoying. (Blondiehack’s “tap tappy” to knock it down doesn’t work.)

As I work up the 4” vise food chain, what jaw lift should I expect? What is a good next level 4” vise? What vendor?

Thanks.

-Bill
First pic without tightening

Second pic tightened.

OP here...Thank you all for your helpful thoughts. I had a good time taking it all apart and seeing how it worked, cleaning, and putting tightly together again. I think it helped some. Not a lot. I do have a small precision vise. And, when I need good accuracy I follow Stefan G's suggestion to bolt to the table (properly supported and all). But, that is a lot of bolting to do pretty basic operations (like squaring a block). So, I (and clearly many others) use a vise to get on with good enough work. The Stefan G video on "everything is rubber" was most helpful. He will have 1 to 4 thou of various sorts of lift on his equipment. So, that my beginner vise is good to only like 3 thou or so, is no longer a surprise.

If I could get a 4" vise good to 1 or 2 thou for $200 to $300 that would suit me nicely. I don't know how to evaluate this feature from the commercial descriptions. ToT thinks Vertex was sensible. Blondiehacks is using Homge. If anyone has any specific model numbers and vendors that would be helpful.

Thanks again.

-Bill

 

[darkzero]

Vertex is a prety reputable Taiwanese brand in general, they're not known for their vises in particluar but they are decent. First I heard of Homge is cause PM/QMT sells them. One of our old moderators (MHRIP) was happy with his, also made in Taiwan. Glacern is another reputable brand, said to be cast in Taiwan & the final grinding done here in CA. I have a 5" Glacern & I'm happy with it. Then there are Shars vises, don't know much about those though. Another option is finding a used Kurt D-40.

Fit & finish should be better for the brands listed but who knows how much better they will be at fixed jaw lift except maybe the Kurt. May have to go with a bigger or beefier vise but 4" is just about the biggest vise I would put on your mill. Not sure of the other familiar brands make 4" vises.

Just curious, how hard are you cranking down the handle when you get that much lift? Just wondering if maybe you are tightening it down too much? They don't need to be cranked down that hard unless maybe doing heavy milling. I use a speed handle which has much less leverage than the standard handle & never have problems with a part lifting with the normal milling that I do.

 

[mikey]

Bill, if I could offer an opinion, I think a milling vise is a foundational piece of equipment. The vast majority of our work is held in a vise so any inaccuracies in that vise transfer to the work. I think economizing in a hobby shop is a fact of life but not for your milling vise. When I was looking for a vise after obtaining my RF-31 I didn't think twice; I just bought a Kurt D-40. I got a very good vise with a lifetime guarantee from a solid company that required zero fiddling to work accurately.

Kurt is not the only company out there. Orange is said to be awesome but is really expensive. Glacern is cheaper than Kurt but is said to be very, very good. If I had to buy another vise, it would be from one of these three companies. I would buy it once and not look back.

 

[darkzero]

Ooh, those Orange vises are absolutely gorgeous! I get a har... well you know, everytime I look at one!

But they don't come smaller than 6" (last time I saw) & yup they are very very expensive! They're like the Ferrari of vises! They just released a bench vise too (well soon), I have only seen renderings of it though. Supposed to come out this month or next month.

I don't want to stir up anything or give wrong info but I heard the partners or whatever at Glacern got into some differences, they parted ways & the other person(s) started the Orange Vise Co. I believe it's the guy you see running the machines in the Glacern tutorial videos. ???