How does it do it?

[ltlvt]

Today I bought a used Chicago Electric horizontal band saw. The motor is fried like DEEP fried. The plastic cooling fan was melted and the coils are all testing bad with a megger. It would not even rotate until I took it apart. Surprisingly the bearings apear to be okay and the plastic seals are not bad but I do not believe there is any hope in restoring the motor to working since all the insulation in the coil slots is melted. I can't even find a model number or horsepower rating on the motor because it is so cheap they didn't even put the tag on the motor they put it on the casting of the saw and itis a sticker not a metal tag or plate.

Now to the question How does it do it? There is no centrifigual switch to disengage the start windings when the motor reaches full RPM which is 1700rpm. I see no evidence of a magic electronic device to switch to run mode. The housing of the capacitor is plastic, and it looks like an overheated black ice cream cone.

So is the magic inside the capacitor or what? Also I see no evidence of a thermal over temp switch. Story of my life now that I know how single-phase motors work, they change the rules on me.

So, How does it do it?

 

[Dyspnea]

Looks like it's a split phase motor. So the stator does the start with a separate winding. When at speed the motor switches to the running winding.

Still should be a switch located somewhere..

I miss read. You mentioned a capacitor. Won't be split phase if it has a capacitor.

Picture of the backend of the motor shaft would help too.

 

[ddickey]

Permanent split capacitor motor?

 

[CJ5Dave]

I have a Dayton (same size ) with a motor swap. It has a standard 1/2 horse GE. Runs fine. I think Harbor Freight calls the standard motor a 1hp.

Also take the gearbox cover off. I bet it is dry too. I used some kind of 90 wt.

 

[ltlvt]

I have a Dayton (same size ) with a motor swap. It has a standard 1/2 horse GE. Runs fine. I think Harbor Freight calls the standard motor a 1hp.

Also take the gearbox cover off. I bet it is dry too. I used some kind of 90 wt.

I will be sure to look at the inside of the gear box. Probably has a teaspoon or less lube in it just enough to pass the warranty. I understand and respect the need for accounting departments in business but some where there needs to be a bridle on cost v/s quality of the products produced. But what the hell we all live in a shake and bake world now days. I doubt packaged cake mixes existed when my Mama learned how to cook her first cake but how many use the basic ingredients to bake a cake now? Its all about connivence and cost. I was a hard-working adult male before the first microwave was created. Now I cannot live without mine!

 

[markba633csi]

Permanent split cap or capacitor-run motor, pretty common on bandsaws (I have one on my little Ryobi)
Think of it like a 3-phase motor with a static phase converter added
So many different motors- so little time!

 

[RJSakowski]

I will be sure to look at the inside of the gear box. Probably has a teaspoon or less lube in it just enough to pass the warranty. I understand and respect the need for accounting departments in business but some where there needs to be a bridle on cost v/s quality of the products produced. But what the hell we all live in a shake and bake world now days. I doubt packaged cake mixes existed when my Mama learned how to cook her first cake but how many use the basic ingredients to bake a cake now? Its all about connivence and cost. I was a hard-working adult male before the first microwave was created. Now I cannot live without mine!

You are aging yourself. I saw the first microwave when I began working for Ray o Vac in 1970. That was a commercial oven. We got a Kenmore a year or two later.

Permanent capacitor motors don't have a switch. The start winding is always in the circuit. They were commonly used in fractional hp applications that didn't require high start torque like fans. They are slight step up from a split phase motor.

As to manufacturers of low quality products, the consumers usually sort them out. IIRC, the Chicago Electric brand was one sold by HF back in the wild and woolly days. Those early CE products were known for their poor quality. I stayed away from them. I recall the early Japanese products were for the most part synonymous with junk. Their quality slowly improved and now they are generally top shelf. Then came the Taiwanese products, followed by the Chinese products. The Taiwanese products are generally considered superior to Chinese. Nowadays, most of our products are made in China and, where there is a good quality control program in place, they can be good quality. I suppose the next country will be India, followed by African or South American.

As to the cake mixes, you are probably right. The first Betty Crocker cake mix came out in 1947 and my Mom was 31 y.o. at the time.

 

[cathead]

How about using an old clothes dryer motor? That what I used to power my home made HV band saw.
They are usually available for free or next to nothing if you look around or find one free for street pick up.

 

[ltlvt]

You are aging yourself. I saw the first microwave when I began working for Ray o Vac in 1970. That was a commercial oven. We got a Kenmore a year or two later.

Permanent capacitor motors don't have a switch. The start winding is always in the circuit. They were commonly used in fractional hp applications that didn't require high start torque like fans. They are slight step up from a split phase motor.

As to manufacturers of low quality products, the consumers usually sort them out. IIRC, the Chicago Electric brand was one sold by HF back in the wild and woolly days. Those early CE products were known for their poor quality. I stayed away from them. I recall the early Japanese products were for the most part synonymous with junk. Their quality slowly improved and now they are generally top shelf. Then came the Taiwanese products, followed by the Chinese products. The Taiwanese products are generally considered superior to Chinese. Nowadays, most of our products are made in China and, where there is a good quality control program in place, they can be good quality. I suppose the next country will be India, followed by African or South American.

As to the cake mixes, you are probably right. The first Betty Crocker cake mix came out in 1947 and my Mom was 31 y.o. at the time.

My mom was 21. I was not thought of yet. That is if they thought of me before practice. lol India is already the electric motor manufacturer of the world. I have a mill that was made in Taiwan and one that was made in China with a Tiawan made spindle. both are of top shelf quality. As a kid growing up all the old timers referred to products made in Japan as "Jap Junk" In my career with General Motors we were kissing up to Toyota to be as good as them. NUMI was a joint venture between Toyota and GM. The plant I went to was somewhere around San Jose California. Fremont Ca. I think. They made the Camery and the Tacoma truck. I think GM marketed the Camery as the Geo. I think quality sometimes hinges on Market Share. Once on top there is only one place to go and that is downhill. We saw it happen to GM in the 70's. During my early years with GM the CEO was an accountant. For some reason I remember his first name as Roger and I think his last name may have been Smith. The quality of my memory has peaked and now it is going down hill as well. LOL

I just saw this on the internet news. Just goes to prove once on the top of the hill its down hill from there.


(Toyota will recall about 100,000 vehicles over concerns that loose debris inside the engine could cause it to stall or otherwise fail, federal regulators announced last week.

The recall covers about 3,500 Lexus LX SUVs from 2022 and 2023 and just under 100,000 Toyota Tundra pickup trucks from the same timeframe, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) said.)

"It's a Damn Shame"

 

[ltlvt]

How about using an old clothes dryer motor? That what I used to power my home made HV band saw.
They are usually available for free or next to nothing if you look around or find one free for street pick up.

I considered doing that but I have several cap-start motors 1750 rpm that would be a simple bolt on to the existing mount. The only thing is they have bronze bushings and this little motor had sealed ball bearings. If I didn't have so many other projects un-finished I would attempt to rewind it using the existing coils but for now it is gona be a good bad example of what happens to quality when greed passes the desire to satisfy the customer. Who am I kidding the real customer is Wall Street !